First of all read this: http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1409835,00.html Then consider what we've seen of him against the biggest teams he's faced.. is anyone else starting to have doubts about him? He's being touted as this £30m+ player but, for what? Does anyone else realise what that price bracket puts him in league with? Buffon, Zidane, Figo, Mendieta(when he was very special) and to think, all those players were 1. the very best in the world at the time of their transfers 2. Bought before the market deflated 3. All had huge success on either the international or the CL scene. Gerrard is not even the best in England and hasn't done anything of note in Europe or on the Int. stage yet but still it is expected he will be sold for over £30million/€43.4million/$57.6million?? After watching him again in yesterday's game put in yet another anonymous performance against one of the best DM's in the world (Makelele) I'm beginning to wonder if he is cut out for us. He got schooled twice against Keane (no shame in that) and has never bettered Vieira. Those are the 3best in the league and quite frankly when Gerrard comes up against them he looks pedestrian. It's all well and good destroying smaller teams and shining then, but when the heat seems to be on he seems to fade away. Yesterday's game was another prime example of this. Hamann was by far pool's best player in the middle of the park. He looked composed and in control. Gerrard looked a bit to forlorn out there and I'm beginning to have my doubts to his true value. He's an exceptional talent, no doubt, but is he what he was touted to be? The stats say Liverpool actually do better when he is not in the team (that was unheard of last season when he carried them to the CL) and well, he's not done anything against any top drawer side to convince me he's worth the kind of money being mentioned. Is he any better then Essien for example? On the surface people will see 'Gerrard' and think world-class and not really consider what he's done so far. Essien has been hands on at Lyon for 2years now and was a revelation the season before that. He's transferred his form onto the CL as well without much fuss and looked the business against every midfield he has faced. Even giving Keano a headache where Gerrard never has. I purposely didn't post the link to that Gaurdian article until now because it's obvious how controversial it is and I also wanted to see Gerrard perform against other midfield's considered the best defensively. He hasn't come up to par in my eyes and I think we'd be better off putting our money to use trying to get Essien and using the change on a keeper and towards another player or wages if possible. Chelsea are welcome to £30m+ Gerrard. No other club would be insane enough to pay that. Neither us or Madrid. Question is: what do you guys think? Would you prefer Gerrard at 30mill or Essien for 15-20?? Additional thoughts?
I would take Essien anyway ,since he's more what we need. If Scholes were getting old, I'd be dying for Gerrard. I reckon soem of Stevie's problem is that once you neutralise him... you neutralise Liverpool... eg.g. he is the only real threat. Look at it, if you have a top defense (as we, Chelsea, and bar this season Arsenal) do, do you REALLY expect to conceed goals to a front 6 of what Liverpool have had to offer? No, you don't... unless Gerrard whips up something great. This year, things have improved as they have been more attacking, allowed Stevie to play the attacking mid spot due to Alonso, and brought in Cisse & Morientes as well as actually played Baros. However, the loss of Alonso was massive and Gerrard has had to take too much on lately, which has given him trouble. Factor in the loss of width (due to Garcia & Nunez being VERY erratic, Pognolle being injured and Kewell missing a lot of time, and stinking it up regularly), and you'll see that Liverpool's midfield doesn't need to be taken seriously when you eliminate Stevie G. at present. If they make some big signings and for arguments, sake line up next August with... *Vicente---Alonso--Gerrard---Routledge -----------**Baros--Morientes *Riise is doing very well, anyway.... nearing 10 goals this year, now. **or Cisse Look for a FAR better 'Pool team and Gerrard. But will he be there?
Gerrard aint fit to clean Keanos boots, ok he has carried grannystabbers for a while, but hes way overated.
Gerrard? No thanks. Let him go to Chelsea. He's already proved that he cannot play effectively with Lampard in my opinion. Let them take that risk.
Good article and good analysis, DS. I'd take Essien over Gerrard, even at the same price. Essien has impressed the hell out of me when I have seen him play. Gerrard has been inconsistent and has disappeared for long stretches against good teams. BTW, my favorite quote from the article, which I'm adding to my sig: "But it's harder to look like the midfield general when you're on the same park as a player like Roy "He Actually Is The Man" Keane (and he was on the same park as Keane last month at Anfield, honest)."
Gerrard's a wonderful player. Remember, Rooney looked like raw sewage most games for Everton. Gerrard passes well short, he passes well long, he tackles well, and even shoots well. He's got great technique, plays well defensively, is fast, and is strong. Liverpool suck ******** through a straw. Sometimes Gerrard will look bad in a team like that. I'd start him for our team any day of the week.
I take your points on board and share them to an extent, but I'm starting to think him going anonymous so many times against big teams is a deeper seated issue. At Euro '04 I fully expected Gerrard to establish himself as one of, if not, the best CM at the tournament, he looked modest there as well. I did tend to subscribe to the theory a lacklustre team is holding him back. I'm not so sure about that anymore. Yesterday he was a passenger in a game where others like Hamann and Hyypia raised their game whilst he struggled with his, as an individual, which is my main point really. When he's up against the best DM's he doesn't look like the same cavelier player we(well I'm) used to seeing. His passing looks offand he doesn't seem to generate that fire and bar someone like say,Keane has. Just from that point of view I can't see where/why he is valued at over 30million pounds. All the other players I mentioned did something very special against the very best players in Europe to be put in that bracket. So far, what has Gerrard done against players he could generally call his peers or even superiors to be bracketed at 30m? Don' get me wrong, at 20mill or so I'd like to see him at Ot. I'm just beginning to wonder if he is worth 8million more then the WPOTY or 12 more then Shevchenko..or worthy of being put in the same transfer bracket as PAvel Nedved when he's done nothing in comparison to those kind of players.
Definitely agree with that. Has happened too many times now to be a coincidence I feel. That article is controversial but I think it hits the nail on the head a few times. Gerrard is not what he was hyped to be, yet.
Gerrard's ability is unquestionable. My concern is whether he can step up his game. The big difference between he and Rooney (and the reason I left Rooney out of my initial list) is that Rooney has shown time and again that he is unphased by his opposition no matter how good they are. He's flustered teams and players that is almost unheard of for a 19y.o to do. For his age and talent shown I can see why we would spend so much on him. I can't actually recall the last time Gerrard really stood out when he was up against the best. Whereas for someone like Essien, I can. Why is that? Essien's team were under the cosh against us and he alone stood firm and really looked like quality up against Keaneo. He's been more consistent then Gerrard for the past 2years as well but there's been no hype around him. I'd gladly take him at 15-20mill then Gerrard at 30mill+. The stats say they have won more games this season without Gerrard then they have with him. Yesterdau Hamann and Hyypia were quality. In fact Hammann showed his pedigree and the fact he is criminally underated. Why doesn't Gerrard get any change out of the very best DM's when he faces them? It's my only question really. As an invidual, re: his own performance irrespective of his team mates, win or lose, has to be better then that against the best teams for him to be worth 30mill, imo.
What is the point of this thread? There's no way in a million light years that Gerrard would even 'consider' joining your lot. He's a Kopite through and through and transfers between LFC and MUFC simply do not and WILL not happen. You guys should learn a bit of history. Can you name me the last player who moved from LFC to MUFC and when it was? If Gerrard goes anywhere it's to Real Madrid. All this talk about Chelsea is bollocks too.
To discuss Steven Gerrard and his performances against the best teams. Footballers of today don't have the sense of tradition you seem to think they have. Otherwise Alan Smith and Rooney would never have 'considered' coming to Man Utd. They are rare, yes. And more dobtful then any other inter-club transfer for us... but again, in today's world you can never say never. Are you suggesting I wouldn't know my history and that of your club? I can. But can you? the last transfer between the clubs was 40 years ago but so what? It just goes to show how much times have changed. If we make an official bid for Gerrard we'll then see what's up. Don't be so sure Madrid will want him. You're kidding yourself if you think Chelsea is not the prime destination for him. Who the hell else will pay 30million? --- Did you read the article in the first post of this thread btw? and if you did what did you think of what the journo had to say?
I think the deal w/ Gerrard is not that he is not good, but rather that he is not a) a great performer when playing superior or equal talent, b) not as good as originally thought because he lit up weak and mediocre teams to carry pool by himself, now that he has help its not that impressive. Gerrard is good, but I would not say he is worth 30Million... one thing he combines is the ability to play CM like very few before him. He is a huge threat going forward, either as a scorer or to set up others and he is very good defensively, so much so that he could be used as DM if the need arose... those qualities make him seem to be 2 players in one, but really his worth going forward is say that of a Scholes 15Million max... defensively, lets say a Makalele although he's not quite that good... its rare to combine those 2 things in a player and that's why he is special but he is not the second coming or anything. That said... Gerrard and Gravesson would make a deadly combo in central midfield... absolutely deadly.
Great post, DS! Sorry can't rep you. First and foremost, none of my views here are based on yesterday's game, because Gerrard basically had a stinker. IMO Stevie G is one of the best central midfield players when he's on his game, because while he's probably more defencive-biased, he still offers a lot going forward. The same can be said for Keano and Vieira. Not so Makelele (but defencively he's a rock). However, the difference comes in who'se partnering Gerrard in the middle. In Xabi Alonso, he had a reliable partner who could also hold his own against attacking midfielders, allowing Gerrard to move forward quite a lot. Keano and Vieira are often the only defencive midfielders in their team's 11, and still contribute a lot to the attack. Gerrard unfortunately seems to rely on having a partner DM to show his best attacking play, and it's his ability to defend well and attack well that would most attract him to United. Gerrard next to Lampard probably hasn't worked for this reason. If United were to buy Gerrard, it would be as a replacement for Roy Keane. That means Gerrard next to Scholes in a few years, for a few years. I think that would produce the same results as Gerrard-Lampard. Basically I think the midfield would work best in that case with Gerrard next to Keano in the middle. It would allow Gerrard to attack more. However, I don't see this happening because: i) it would mean Gerrard has taken the place of Paul Scholes, United's BEST midfield player. ii) it would mean that we had invested 30m and still hadn't gotten the long term replacement for Keano, which would neccesitate the signing of another player, eg Essien (although the money definitely wouldn't be there). What this does not account for, however, is the natural improvement a transfer to Manchester United brings about. No doubt Gerrard would improve and possibly become the best midfielder in the world in a few years. Essien still looks the natural choice, as he could well be at the club for a few years as a rotation player as Keano's glorious career comes to it's end, and he'd immediately slot in as his replacement. Gerrard will be 25 at the end of the season. Essien just turned 22 in December. Essien would probably go for a very maximum of 20m, Gerrard for a minimum of 30. I say United go for Essien, a good keeper and a young winger.
I've said it load of times before and I'll say it again. Gerrard plays great in big games against weak teams but is nowhere to be seen in big games against great teams. Way overrated and I hope he never joins United.
Ditto, he is overrated and anyone shelling out 30 million has more money than brains… sound like someone we know? I have also not seen him play that spectacular against the better teams, perhaps it’s because he’s playing with a team of underachievers. I may be wrong, yet it’s good to see others feel the same, as I believed most touted the guy.
I belive Gerrard is excellent, but remember too he is playing in a injury ravaged Liverpool lineup and sooner or later the lack of talent will show him at his worst. Its like that for many players though, very few players can carry a team.
I'm surprised people are tossing Gerrard over board today. The position he plays is thankless, and unless he does something spectacular, like against Olyp. in the CL group, he gets credit if they're winning blame if they are losing. At the beginning of the year when you guys were slow, people said Keano had lost it, now that we are struggling people want to take the armband from Vieira. I think Gerrad is at least Lampard's equal. Jose's may be an arrogant twat, which he is, but his confidence spills onto his players and thats part of the reason the sheen is so bright on Lampard. Really, in the FA Cup, when they brought on Eidur, Duff, and Frankie, you'd have thought they were bringing out Batman, Robin, and Superman they way the announcers acted. Really . . . Its not like this was (Henry, Vieira, and Pires) (RVN, Giggs, and Scholes) this was 3 players you could have had 2 years ago for less than you paid for Rooney. We'd take Gerrard in a hearbeat IMHO
Interesting. I don't know if I'd go quite that far. How much of it is him versus Liverpool? I don't know if he's worth the price. I think there's a Gerrard premium that goes on top of the usual Brit premium.
Arf. Different formation. 4-3-3 would let him play with Makelele between them. Sven's not clever enough to try that, and Gerrard is tailor made for that. As for Gerrard, I think one of the big problems he has is that he often feels he has to do everything, and when things don't go his way when he tries that, he fades from games. If he played alongside teammates that were better than what he has now (lets face it, man for man, barely any Liverpool player would start ahead any of the players form the top 3) I think you might see him do more in "big games". That being said, I've soured a bit on Gerrard. He's not worth the ludicrous fees they're quoting, and if Liverpool get, say, Vicente and Rosicky in exchange for the giant pile of cash we'd be handing them, that's not a deal I like. I'm starting to think either Ballack or Juninho Pernambucano (who's ridiculously underrated) might be better alternatives. And would be far cheaper.
That's my point. He was great against Olympyakios. But how good are they? How was he against United and Chelsea this season? Or how about that wonderful back pass against France last year?
yeah...lots of players that look like raw sewage get the call-up to play for england as for gerrard...this conversation is pointless. you can't afford him.