I don't have time to reply to that right now, but please don't think I am dishonest - you and another 'friend' Isaias should know that by now, if you have respect for me (I thought you did, even recently). No comment about 'CR7's' dribbling success numbers (percentages) though? Anyway, I don't come on here to fall out with anyone. Maybe we should just have stuck to avoiding arguing on 'CR7' topics (I felt within my right to say I disagreed, respectfully, with Al Gabiru, without questioining his honestly - how well he knows MvB is a different question only he can answer though). If you respect me maybe you should retract the suggestion I'm being dishonest Carlito (and the rep Isaisas). But if this escalates further I'm not going to respond to it all - disrespect me if you want, it's your call (but you only recently apologised if you had done). Sigh....
If this comes over as an over-reaction, then I apologise from my side (it was just very annoying to log in and see - bear in mind I struggle with anxiety/stress a lot and wasn't really planning to spend much time posting on here over the weekend too - I want to pretty much refrain from it for at least half a week, perhaps till next weekend now to be honest too, but came back one more time to try to be a bit more conciliatory Carlito - we know we have different feelings about CR7 and long have done, and it's not all to do with whether he's a rapist or not...and I understand other 'all-time' players such as Maradona could have 'bad' allegations against them in some respects too...even if Gianfranco Zola seems to think Maradona was a nice guy and for that matter Rafael van der Vaart did say the same about C.Ronaldo I remember). Anyway, I wasn't being dishonest (I hope you can understand how that suggestion, about 'our dear friend PDG1978 would be uncomfortable to admit...' came over when I logged in quickly before having my lunch!), but I didn't want to get into any long back and forth debate right now (finding/showing more videos and suchlike too), for sure. I wish you the best. It's really hard to not fall out with anyone at any time on here (as much I always try to write in a way that avoids it). It doesn't really affect my stress/anxiety when it happens, but maybe being in that state of mind makes it easier to react and get annoyed I guess. Thanks....
Maradona has equally bad allegations you should look into it it’s not just the woman beating or drug taking either https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...-alleges-footballer-raped-her-when-she-was-16 This woman below the age of consent(not that rape is ever consensual anyways) This would technically make him not just a rapist but a pedophile too https://www.streetchildren.org/legal-atlas/map/argentina/status-offences/can-children-be-criminalised-for-moral-offences-such-as-having-sex-outside-of-marriage/#:~:text=The age of consent to,Title III, Article 120). It would if it were true but nothing is true that can’t be proven without a shadow of a doubt I prefer talking about on pitch actions though It is a football forum after all(or at least in this section) I know the forum does have some genocide supporting freaks in other threads but not here as far as I’ve witnessed personally. not that I want to spend too long on this Cristiano is not my favourite human being in the world. Not even if we limit it to just the ’football world’ for example I disagree with Gary linekars football opinions and find him to be very condescending towards others who don’t hold the same football related opinions as his. And to top it off I don’t think he was ever a truly remarkable footballer at least not in the way you probably do my personal estimation of Gary linekar as a human being though is way higher then I have of any sports personality in the world It’s very easy for me and perhaps you to say something like this but someone like him who has a lot at stake(in terms of public image,sponsorship deals etc) it is simply not.
I don't think you're dishonest, friend. I only gave the rep because I agreed with Carlito's argument. I have a lot of respect for you and am a big fan of your posts. I only disagree with a few things, but that's absolutely normal, the world would be extremely boring if everyone agreed on everything. I hope you weren't upset with me (I had that impression when I saw 'friend' in quotation marks) for repping Carlito's post. Like I said, I agree with the arguments, not the ad hominem attacks. Carlito is another poster that I really like, especially when it comes to Cristiano Ronaldo, who is my favorite player. I love the comps and stats he brings about.
I am tentative in joining in the discussion, since I have not seen van Basten play live at all, but I think the disagreement might stem from what constitutes a dribble, or a talented player. In terms of how OPTA defines as a dribble, I personally do not think the two players are comparable at all in terms of volume of success (although it is a sheer estimation on my part due to the lack of data). However, from what I understand, van Basten was excellent at receiving the ball (aerially or on the ground) with his back-to-the-goal, and keeping the flow of the attack alive, even if he didn't specifically dribble past that player as OPTA would define it. In that particular regard, I can see why some would label van Basten as being superior to Cristiano Ronaldo. If the metric for talent is the ability to receive the ball with your back-to-the-goal, and somehow beat your marker via a mixture of aerial ability, strength, balance, touch, anticipation, turning ability and agility, and sometimes dribbling with the ball in tight spaces, and releasing the ball and keeping the flow of the attack alive, van Basten seemed ridiculously good from the clips I've seen (especially relative to the era). For example, even if Roberto Baggio had great dribbling and playmaking, I personally feel he lacked this particular skillset that van Basten possessed, and it is why he was not labelled specifically as a striker. Whereas van Basten had greater toolkits to his game as a pure striker, and was able to receive the ball and advance play, in positions and scenarios Baggio could not, due to his size and strength. This ability is harder to gauge through scoring algorithms, and I also speculate it is a part of the reason why van Basten struggled with injuries so much. If you constantly engage in duels versus defenders, and purposefully position yourself close to an opponent knowing you can usually come on top of that duel, even if it isn't specifically via a dribble, and pride yourself in helping out the team in that manner, it seems likely you will suffer quite a lot of fouls and injuries.
That's possibly about as good an outcome as I could have expected given my reactions yesterday I guess! I would have added a rep for you too Carlito, but I'm not aware of what is being said on other forums etc exactly (I do admire/respect Gary Lineker for giving views such as those too though, and even if CR7 would be guilty of the worst case scenario/s I'd still think of Netanyahu, and some others like him as a worse human being, I certainly think....but I don't want to suggest there aren't individuals of terrible morality on the Hamas side or to be insensitive to people of jewish background who may be scared for their own reasons). I wouldn't say I feel 'guilty' about it exactly, but maybe I feel 'awkward' that you have sometimes/often shown some admiration for players I like, but I don't really towards C.Ronaldo (not omitting him from being somewhere among the prominent contenders when I make posts about best players ever though....and I feel also sticking to the football in that respect, but we surely do differ on estimations about just how good/talented he was as a player, relative to some other all-time contenders of which Van Basten would be one obvioiusly). I'm aware that both of you, Carlito and Isaias, do have C.Ronaldo as a/the favourite player and enjoy watching him on the pitch quite a lot more than I do myself obviously. You probably could have reacted less pleasantly Isaias to what I said about the rep, so thanks for not doing that. Like I said I was thinking of not posting much in these next days, but I'd say that I do concur with what Letmepost was saying (and alluded to similar things a bit, outside of dribbling, when I mentioned things like 'centre forward play' or 'touches in tight spaces'). As for defining dribbling I guess it can be a little arguable or contentious potentially yeah (how much of Zidane's ball manipulation counts as legitimate 'dribbling' for example - maybe it depends on the exact scenario, but obviously when it comes to Opta numbers they will have a particular criteria - off topic here but I even wonder whether when Opta showed 'dribbles and runs' numbers in the 90s and early 00s the dribbles part was measured in a different way to how it is now btw...and more in an old-fashioned sense of defining one dribble as a run with the ball past opponents until it ended...but that could be wrong but I was thinking that could be one side of it and 'carries' as we might say now might have been the runs side of it, hence their current dribbles definition being completely new??) I would point out that PSV Eindhoven were European Champions in 1988 (that's not indicative of the whole league of course but then we know that Barcelona/Real Madrid, and to an extent Manchester United in the 00s also had many games where the opponent was significantly out-matched for squad value, even if particularly in the Premier League case there were a few close contending 'second level' type teams and the whole league did have the finances to buy many foreign players), and that in defending prowess/approach/what players could get away with in terms of fouls etc Serie A of the late 80s and early 90s was harder to dribble in than modern leagues in general (and Van Basten also had some severe treatment in terms of fouls from some other teams such as Real Madrid in 1989/90). Adding a quick reference to some Van Basten dribbles though, there is not only the run and footwork for the goal from 6:29 here but also the play at 16:17 for example (but he'd scored a more extensive dribbling goal vs the same team the previous calendar year too): There is a disparity of footage available for these older players compared to modern stars too of course, but on this available one (from his AC Milan time) he's pretty active in terms of solo play for example (and going past the defender at 10:22 before the chip onto that bar would certainly count as a successful dribble that led to a goal I'm sure): I wouldn't go so far to say Lineker was one of my favourite players or something by the way, but I certainly enjoyed to see some of his goals at times (including when rounding goalkeepers), and I think when he was really on his game he was also a bit better in terms of ball control and team play than might be assumed sometimes, particularly playing for Tottenham maybe where he does have a few impressive passes and assists too. As one example, see 6:02 here (he's also one of the players involved in the great goal vs Charlton in 1989/90 with the pass at 2:58 for example but it's a minimal part in that one and I'm mentioning it more because of the whole move while I think about is as an aside really) Actually, just before I did come back (and reacted badly to seeing that post before lunch yesterday!), I had been kind of listening to a couple of episodes of the 'top 10' Premier League podcasts that Lineker does with Alan Shearer and Micah Richards and it seems one of them was top 10 Premier League wingers (with a wide definition to include all feasible wingers I suppose), and I did hear Lineker say that C.Ronaldo was the best player of the selection to be fair/honest (Richards did put him 1st, while Shearer who generally goes more for longevity in the league didn't), though he did say that Beckham is the one he'd most like to have played in the same team as because of the service he'd receive (and that he used to say that back when Beckham was playing for Man United too); he seemed to suggest he might think of Salah as better than Giggs it seemed too, but then had some contra thoughts/doubts and even kind of concurred with Shearer putting Giggs first (if seeing it the way he was looking at it anyway). On the topic of how nice guys are he was full of praise for Eden Hazard by the way I heard, talking about having met him on holiday too (and how frustrated Hazard was that because of injuries he couldn't show his best at Real Madrid). I didn't listen to it all from start to finish though. EDIT - I don't know which games those Sofascore stats lists you posted were from Carlito, but note that the Van Basten one did show 6 successful dribbles out of 7 attempts (I can see that so did the C.Ronaldo one too of course on that particular occasion).
........................... Football from the past is like a missing link in time and space, so it is necessary for younger people to watch entire seasons or entire games of the same kind.. Otherwise, they will always have a bias that they are analyzing Football only for the best moments on You tube always only first touch plays .. dribbles not completed ( firulas in portuguese language) magic ... etc... Professional football is much more than just this
Yes I understand/agree - the difficulties are firstly the lack of available performances/games to look at in full (though there are some for sure), and secondly how much time guys will want to or will be able to spend looking at full old games I suppose (while actively following current football too at the same time).
...................... The videos on YouTube about Van Basten are not focused on dribbling skills . They are focused on the goal only in quotes... I once saw Marco van Basten's entire games in the 1984/85 Eredivisie and he scored 22 goals and 20 assists in the matches. Unfortunately, the Dutch boy, an Ajax fan, removed the videos from this entire season. I watched the entire games at a LanHouse in Brazil at that time.
............. Perfect comment! The only one who edited cool videos about Van Basten was PuckvanHeel, his videos actually show a much greater variety of moves. Van Basten perfectly headed the first touch of the ball
Yeah, that's what I mean about a disparity in available footage Wiliam (so much unavailable for older players such as MvB), so of course more scenes can be found/shown for current/recent players. By the way I forgot to mention Isaias that given I've noticed that one of the things you rate highly about C.Ronaldo is (at least in the Real Madrid era) off the ball movement, that that's probably something you'd have appreciated about Lineker too I think. Of course it helps being so quick (which also applies to C.Ronaldo even if he lost some pace as he got older....possibly a bit more than Lineker did I think because he was also a very quick player at Tottenham still certainly).
He made some and uploaded them to DailyMotion I remember yeah (including full Euro 88 performances, but not only those).
,.............. Yes, Perfect comment again, yours, Yes, the biggest example of this for me is Johan Cruyff, actually on You Tube there is no video that shows 10% what Johan Cruyff was as a playmaker, of course, apart from your videos and PuckvanHeel... for example Cruyff crossing with his left foot and right foot with extreme perfection, Long Passes again with his left and right foot.. Plays one-twos short passes at speed, ambidextrous Passes in depth and vision... There really is very little archive of images as a whole . ! so sad at all mate !
really this goal was made by Edson Arantes Pelé ... in Brazil .... has the him image .. Dribbling the goalkeeper and later he headered the ball and Goal Goal Goal ... But is harder to find the entire plays in the image ... i mean lost the image already .. not founded !!! ..............
mvbeng88 - video Dailymotion mvbger88 - video Dailymotion mvbsu88 - video Dailymotion Quite a few other videos on there of course, including this Gullit one (you already know I am guessing Wiliam - I assume it doesn't have that Haarlem goal you are looking for but I haven't looked through just now): Gull50comp - video Dailymotion I realise now that the screenshot from Sofascore Carlito posted was from the Euro 88 Final, vs the USSR (there was 1 big chance created noted too; it may be the backheel to Wouters on the edge of the box from memory but I could be wrong about that) Anyway, I suppose the dribble success % for Van Basten in that whole tournament was actually very good, not with a huge amount of dribbles though (in some of the games very few and just a couple of games with a higher number).
This thread, where I retrieved the DailtMotion link from, does have quite a lot of good/relevant posts including comments about fouling of MvB, and Ronald Koeman's best XIs (and statement about Van Basten as his best team-mate). Van Basten - the best centre forward I`ve ever seen | BigSoccer Forum
............... I did one video edited once about Marco van Basten skills ... is on my channel at You Tube ...
................... Yes, I saw all these videos my dear, they are incredible, truly extraordinary. It shows a lot of variety in the game of both Gullit and Van Basten, it really is really cool.
Nice work mate! 0:24 onwards is fantastic play for example, and that touch at the start of that sequence would in theory get a lot of attention from younger fans I guess (obviously it's a shame that the final shot didn't go in, otherwise the play would probably be more well known now, and maybe a contender to feature on one of my best goals/assists videos too!...but yeah it was not a completely rare/untypical piece of play by Van Basten of course). I made that one actually mate (maybe you recognise the channel name from that other video you commented on), but I'm not sure the music was necessary or the best choice in retrospect (it was one of my earliest uploads, to preserve some rare footage from that Euros qualifying game - unfortunately as far as I'm aware the full game or all of Cruyff's touches are not available anywhere though still) - your music on your video on the other hand goes really nicely I think (I did use some classical music on some of my videos too, but the tempo of that music goes nicely with the footage too while having a classical feel to it also which matches well with it being retro footage and with MvB's elegant play).
@Wiliam Felipe Gracek I think between this And all the matches played by Johan Cruyff in WC 1974 there will definitely be more then 10% of an idea of how great a playmaker Johan Cruyff was obviously two tournaments will not cover 10% of his entire career highlights(he is a player with 300+ assists and definitely well over 1000 chances created) But those two tournaments are definitely I’d think the absolute best presentation of Cruyff the false 9(his peak)and then Cruyff the midfield general(his return to the Netherlands)
The European Cup was a bit strange(balanced?)in those days anyways Between 1973/74 and 1993/94 the Romanian league produced as many EC finalists as the Dutch league https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_finals something could be said of the once in a life time crop of players Romania produced in those days though and of course the core of steaue Bucharest also did very well in the World Cup in both 90 and 1994 And I couldn’t resist this Hagi with one of the greatest set piece assists of all time vs PSV One of the greatest goals ever probably even
the first for the goals and the second for the general play(1986/87 seasonal comp) the dribble at 0:11 on the second MVB video seems to be the best example the comp maker could find for Marco Slaloming past 3 players with close control in a tight area Ronaldo (the Portuguese) last did this aged 34 vs atletico Madrid in the champions league shades of Roberto baggio vs Czechoslovakia without the finish of course
Who are the most creative players in World Cup history? =22. Jairzinho - 35 chances =22. Zbigniew Boniek - 35 chances =22. Gheorge Hagi - 35 chances =19. Bernd Schneider - 36 chances =19. Juan Sebastian Veron - 36 chances =19. Johan Cruyff - 36 chances 18. Luis Figo - 37 chances =16. Enzo Scifo - 38 chances =16. Thomas Habler - 38 chances 15. Neymar - 39 chances =12. Grzegorz Lato - 41 chances =12. Bastian Schweinsteiger - 41 chances =12. Pierre Littbarski - 41 chances 11. Xavi Hernandez - 42 chances 10. Michel Platini - 43 chances 9. Thomas Muller - 45 chances 8. Kazimierz Deyna - 47 chances =5. Mesut Ozil - 48 chances =5. Kevin De Bruyne - 48 chances =5. Alan Giresse - 48 chances 4. Lothar Matthaus - 49 chances 3. Wolfgang Overath - 59 chances =2. Diego Maradona - 67 chances =1. Lionel Messi - 69 chances ....................... Note: the numbers of the clearest chances created are not calculated from the 1962 World Cups ago 1958 .... 54 ... 50 ... 38 ... 34 ... 30 are not computed there in this Ranking only from 1966 go ahead years ... 70 .. 74 .. 78 etc...