All that is good and dandy but Vini showed more flare and confidence under Solari than he did under Zidane sorry but he was playing timid and to not make mistakes with ZZ.
Hazard was playing garbage and walked into starting XI whenever he was healthy from 2019-21. That must have surely had an impact on Vini. It's not just ZZ's fault. He was club record signing and we were hoping to see "old Hazard" after every injury return.
Fair enough, yes flare and confidence, young and straight out of Brazil, all action, but apparently his teammates thought he was playing against them missing easy chances and constantly making bad decisions in the final pass, with most fans here losing their minds at the insane ability but the equal amount of wastefulness, then he began to learn, it seemed a bit more timid but he was making less and less mistakes than when he first turned up all action speed dribbling missing passes and shots, , he grew, the butterfly finally came out in the long run but it took time, at least this is my view of things.....
Samir Nasri and Ben Arfa also had "natural progression". I think a lot of times we undervalue how important it is for players to be in a space where there is accountability.
I agree with this Zidane definitely slowed his progress. Vinni was already our most dangerous player under Solari. Games, that I clearly remember are against Ajax and against Barcelona. When you have that kind of player, you should work with him.
Also City Vini was scared to make mistakes under ZZ. He was a unrefined jewel that needed to make mistakes and learn from them but the culture at the club at that time was to keep it tight at the back and be efficient when we had the ball. Vini was the opposite of that. Fortunately for him Carlo stumbled into the coaching position and the rest is history
A younger kid tends to be scared to make mistakes and there is a thing called adjustments after watching a player play. Vincius has adapted him game multiple times over the years and needed to because every manager attempts to use a plan to take him out of the match. This is like when football fans say a QB sucks in season 2 but they can't comprehend that other teams built gameplans over the off-season to stop them. They literally never got to see them at a high level and once they pick up your game? They attempt to stop it.
Regardless, it all worked out. Vini is great, ZZ was freaking great, Ancelotti is freaking amazing and even solari played a role as he did give the young guys a push during his brief stint Future is bright
Vini had better numbers for Solari than he did under ZZ. Vini hit rockbottom under ZZ. In fact there were rumours that he might be sold because he'd joined Ceballos in the freezer. ZZ preferred Ansensio as well as trying to revive Hazard's decaying career than trying to develop Vini. I think it was quite evident at the time that Vini wasn't a player than ZZ rated. In hindsight it looks terrible optics-wise but i don't think any of us could have forseen what giant strides Vini would take as soon as the next season started. Maybe it was the leaked video that finally revealed to Vini that he wasn't as good as he thought. Maybe it was natutal progression. We won't know for sure. But whatever it was, it'd be a lie if you think things would change of ZZ had stayed. He coached him for 2,5 seasons and I don't think he made a single improvement to his game. It all cultivated into him being shafted to RWB in ZZ last game in Europe as our coach. Maybe Vini is the kind of guy that needs a coach literally holding his hand so that he could leave the pitch rather than a guy who hardly speaks to his players. Whatever it is, Carlo is definitely someone who has allowed Vini to grow and develop and he is now reaping the rewards for doing so.
..or maybe fans need to understand that everything isn't linear or automatic. As a professional you have to go through ups and downs and develop your mentality and skill. You can't be the same level and think it will continue to work. You have to work and hone your craft. Maybe.. just maybe that is something Vinicius did and it wasn't some magic pill or being told "you are free!", that has seen him grow to the player he is today. I get many of you can't comprehend this so I will let that die.
We witness every season now how Vini is improving certain facets of his game. He didn't develop anything of note under ZZ. He actually regressed as a footballer, not because he got worse but because he was a shell of himself, walking on egg shells, scared to lose the ball. He obviously worked hard to improve especially his shooting technique but lets not pretend like Vini's journey under Carlo has been faultless, the difference is Carlo didn't stick him on the bench for 5/6 games, instead he stuck by him and let him grow into his own. Voilà this is the result.
I think even Vin himself would dispute the version of developing nothing of note under ZZ and regressing, but even that might not be believed, Vin had to compete at that time with Eden, when Eden first turned up no one knew he was going to be a major flop, he was a star at Chelsea and was bought for a lot of money and on high wages, Eden was always going to play before him, hence even though he put in some great but error strewn performances he found himself on the bench, he didn't come to Madrid as a star, so no surprise Marco got mins before him either. Hindsight is wonderful but we've seen this same movie many times, like with Arda right now and the complaints he should "play more", is stagnating, should leave on loan, and so on, now the problem coach is Carlo, but in a different way, " he doesn't know how to bring through and grow young players" (which was said when he was dealing with Cama and Tchou as well) and the call was for another coach Xabi to sort that out, of course, both cannot be true of Carlo re young players and "sticking with them", but the cycle goes on
It’s ok to think that Zidane is a great manager, all time great manager, while admitting his style may not have been the best to develop a player like Vini. we have the evidence young unpolished but confident and full of flare under Solari Timid, afraid to make mistakes and unproductive under Zidane World superstar under Carlo it’s ok. No one is perfect
Nah. Some people [me] we're saying from the beginning how can this teenage player who was looking so promising just recently [under Solari] regress so rapidly and unexpectedly [under Zidane]. Some people [me] always saw the star in the making even if others didn't [insert names here]. As for the leaked video, I thought that it having was more to do with Benzema's learning curve and trajectory as a team leader and Captain than it was anything with Vinnie's development and talent.
Ehh both things can be true. Vini simply needed more games and time to gain experience and become better. Carlo is also a better manager for a player like him to improve under.
Whilst i agree with most of this, the fact remains that if Solari had Eden, Vin would not have played as much as he did, he was a kid, and despite his confidence and flare everyone here was losing their minds at the finishing and the decisions he made at times, he would have had to compete, he would have had to be more consistent fighting for his spot, In the end ZZ as with all coaches at Madrid had to win first and foremost, team first, you see timid, i see careful and trying to be a better player, i believe it helped him, you think he stagnated, Carlo came, Eden just wasn't cutting it (and mostly injured) so Vin got the chance to play, someone had to play on the left, all this Carlo belief in him stuff is a good story but....... and i'm both a Carlo and Vin fan, you know this, i believe he got a good grounding with ZZ both on the pitch and probably in training, in the end we see what we want to see i suppose, and i include myself.
Less than a week before CL Finals and someone named Sara Blonde uploads a *** tape with him on her PH account... what was he thinking agreeing to be filmed like that?
Which is what he did under Zidane... Again, you guys really ran with that narrative and it was created from the ideology that there has to be a good guy and a bad one. Vini just developed. Had tough moments, even with Carlo....
Could maybe even add Solari there as being better in the player development department. He even had guys like Reguillon looking legit and brought Valverde and Llorente into the fold. Some peopel just don't know how to admit when they are wrong. He was like lightening in those few months under Solari, uncontrolled and unpredictable. They want to see something wrong with it instead of simply acknowleding he was a phenomena (that Zidane blew out like the candles on a birthday cake) I must warn that you are committing a cardinal sin in the religion of Zidanism which is to point out that he is anything other than perfect. Your account is likely to suffer the same fate as James career under Zidane. l'll just be glad that Vinicius was able to find his feet again under Carlo and become the best player in the world. Kaka, Shevchenko, Cristiano, Benzema, all won the BdO under Ancelotti and now probably Vinicius too. It can't just be a conincidence.