In all seriousness, are we talking sportsman or athlete? I think Ronnie O'Sullivan needs to be up there, but he is clearly not an elite athlete. There's also something to be said for the polymaths - someone like Max Woosnam, who excelled at multiple sports as an amateur in a largely professional world.
Daley Thompson is another to consider. Double Olympic decathlon champion, unbeaten for almost a decade.
Yeah I can’t really argue with any of that and Peaty is a phenomenal swimmer, actually not sure what sort what sort of form he’s in currently though after his injury lay off. I also think you need to take each sport into account because some are obviously more gruelling than the other but Chris Froome winning the Tour de France four times doesn’t get the recognition it deserves. I mean that’s impressive in my opinion.
Yes, obviously different skill sets for each. Football - not going to go over this again as it's been discussed ad nauseam on the site. There's at least a dozen names I'd be happy to go along with. Cricket - a tricky one. WG Grace dominated his era like nobody else, but it's incredibly difficult to compare the 19th century game top even the post war era. Peak Botham was elite, but he robbed a living for years after his back issues. I think Joe Root will likely end up England's greatest bat, and for the bowlers it's difficult to go beyond Trueman and Anderson if we hold Sydney Barnes to the same standards as Grace. Rugby Union - Gareth Edwards for me. I have little doubt he'd excel in the modern era, and it's also an excuse to post "that" try. Rugby League - I can't really look past Ellery Hanley here. Tennis - Andy Murray, no question. Golf - Faldo or McIlroy Track & Field - Daley Thompson Cycling - Froome has been mentioned, and then possibly someone like Chris Hoy? Boxing - Lennox Lewis was probably the most complete heavyweight. I'm a casual watcher at best, so would struggle at the lower weights.
Getting back into form but Qin Haiyang of China is the favourite. Max Whitlock in Gymnastics is up there as well - also attempting three in a row. Jonathan Edwards 1995 Triple Jump world record still stands 29 years after it was set
Just bringing this in here as it's veering off from the topic of the thread in there. Japan has one of the deepest boxing cultures in the world. They may be in a golden period but it has long been one of the top nations in the sport. Japan is 4th in the all time world champion list. Fighting Harada who made his debut in 1960 is considered one of the greatest fighters of all time. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-boxing-champions-by-country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_boxing_world_champions I must admit that I don't follow boxing like I used to (used to be a massive boxing head) but looking at the Ring rankings it feels like there's roughly the same number UK of fighters in the top 10 by division but a lack of champions or P4P fighters. The UK is especially strong in the heavyweight division currently. When I used to follow boxing I don't think there was any division with so many British fighters in the top 10. I hear that Moses Ituama is one of the best prospects in that division too. I'm no expert on cycling but I think Mark Cavendish is considered the greatest British cyclist of all time. His best discipline the sprint isn't appreciated by the general public like the TDF is. He is ranked by some as the greatest sprinter of all time. Boxing is a difficult one. The UK is third in the list of number of world champions in history but lacks in all time P4P greats. The list below is decent. The thing is with boxing is that I don't see how modern fighters can surpass the greats of the past because the way the sport has changed. It's quite different to other sports. Sugar Ray Robinson is generally considered the best of all time and by a margin. The first fight he lost was against Jake La Motta, an all time great himself. Robinson avenged that defeat 3 times! You'd never see that in the modern era. Boxers of his era fought a lot more, their careers were not managed as cynically as they are now. Floyd Mayweather is a great example of this. Pacquiao was the big defining fight of his career but he ducked it until Pac was showing signs of decline. Championship fights were 15 rounds in the past and much more brutal, referees wouldn't stop fights for anything like what they do now. If you go back even further into the 19th century you can find records of fights where a boxers eye comes out of his skull and he rips it out to continue with the fight. If that's entirely true I don't know but fights in the past were far more brutal. Lennox is a good shout though. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/661141-the-top-20-british-boxers-of-all-time
There's been a lot of state investment in the past 20 years into boxing in Japan which is why they've improved so much at amateur level. Fireburn's original point of poor countries ostensibly dominating boxing was to suggest that what Britain does is the sport isn't that impressive which I don't agree with personally. Most of these "poor" countries still invest a lot into the sport at the state level. The Uzbeks have a vast state sponsored boxing programme, as do the Kazakhs. All combat sports are state backed in Russia and based on interviews with Lomachenko's Dad it seems like there's something similar in Ukraine (albeit to a lesser degree). Grassroots boxing in the UK is largely dependent on volunteers and people funding the sport at a peer level and there aren't many comparable countries who have sustained success while the sport runs on fumes at its foundation. Even in Cuba the state backs the sport a lot; it can't afford a lot but it backs it with whatever it's got.
That was the only Atkinson I could think off and you got my head in a spin and then came to the conclusion you were pissed, lol
True, Cuba invest a lot in it as Castro believed boxing to be the true sporting expression of strength and masculinity which was the image he wanted to project of his country. A classic example of sport as state propaganda.
Just to go back to the cycling, our most successful Olympian is Jason Kenny with 7 golds and 2 silver, that makes him the most successful Olympic cyclist of all time and 15th most successful Olympian of all time across all sports. He's another one that gets strangely overlooked. His wife Laura Kenny has 5 golds and 1 silver which makes her Britain's most successful female Olympian and the most successful female Olympic cyclist of all time. They have two kids, lots of potential there to say the least. We really did have a golden period with cycling with Wiggins, Froome, Kenny, Kenny, Cavendish, Hoy, Pendleton, Clancy and Thomas. We may not see that kind of dominance in any sport again in our lifetimes.
This is one of the best things that has happened for the England test cricket team in recent years 🏏 pic.twitter.com/eBRColo5x4— James (@Surreycricfan) May 28, 2024 The England Cricket team are better at football than cricket.
Rob Burrow CBE has passed away at the age of 41.RIP ❤ pic.twitter.com/idaJduE9HZ— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) June 2, 2024 Very sad news. RIP Rob.
Englands bowling attack is the difference between England and Australia! Australia varied and controlled made it very difficult for England. Need to use more slower balls.
England short form cricket has fallen apart and there is no easy fix - they have no plan for who could succeed Butler as captain and he has suggested he will step down if this World Cup goes badly as it currently is. I think through the effect of match being cancelled by the weather makes it a bit of a lottery through.
GEORGE MILLS EUROPEAN SILVER 🤩What. A. Run. 🙌George Mills takes a stunning silver in the 5000m to earn our first medal of #Roma2024 👏#WhereItStarts pic.twitter.com/NRVfyzvwAc— British Athletics (@BritAthletics) June 8, 2024 This is Danny Mills’s son. Well done to him.
I can imagine there'll be a lot of squad turnover after this tournament. Moeen is coming up 37, Jordan and Rashid 35, Wood and Bairstow 34. They're unlikely to all be around for the next limited over cups. Cashing in their last years in franchise cricket may be the more appealing option. As you say, there's no obvious immediate replacement captain in the current squad. Will Jacks or Sam Curran (if he can get back to form) would be the most likely for me. Outside bet could be Daniel Bell-Drummond. He's got an excellent domestic white ball record, but no international experience.
I suspect the chances of someone with no international experience being suddenly promoted to international captain is very slim. I saw speculation a while back they would consider having a co captaincy and swap every match to ease someone in(And that they woukd consider for the test team post Sfokes as well.)
There is no plan for these matches. Bazball! Go out and enjoy it. That’s it. You still need defined roles. You need a steady batsman to anchor. Maybe Brook but they just fling him in. Same with the bowling. Curran was our best death bowler but now he’s nowhere. Maybe bring Morgan in as a coach as he seemed to get these formats.
This is key. We've got 4 openers and 3 finishers so the balance is just wrong. Joe Root would be perfect - he can hit when needed, but also stick around and let the others go for it. If the openers fire, then you just drop him down the order. He's never really done anything wrong for England in white ball cricket, but because he doesn't hit the ball into the second tier of the stands, he's been ignored for 5 years in T20.
Curran hasn't been great since the last World Cup, a lot of his success in the last was exploiting the longer boundaries in Australia, he might have done better than Jordan but the logic to not play him here with an extremely short 58m one and a massive prevailing wind was sound.
Maybe so. I was just thinking of what worked in the past. Main point was having options with defined roles. I’m not confident our death bowling will be good with this group.