Cristiano Ronaldo (-12/13) vs Van Basten

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tropeiro, Dec 24, 2019.

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  1. Van Basten

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Cristiano Ronaldo

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    ................. Edson Arantes Pelé ... said here in Brazil : 1. Alfredo Di Stefano 2. Zinedine Zidane 3. Zico .. !!
     
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  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ..........
     
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  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    .........
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, 1:54 is misleading - in the full video it can be seen that that pass is not the one played to Piantoni before the goal he scores.

    It is a clip that shows two different scenes played after each other, and it appears like they are from the same play but they're not.

    There is a similar occurance for one of the goals in the England-Hungary 'Match of the Century' I think (maybe the final Hidegkuti one), where the highlights merge together one random play with the final part of the move for the goal.

    If you're able to watch on Footballia you will be able to see what I mean....
     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Interesting to know - often he did not seem to specify an order but just named a lot of options from all over the world, from what I have seen. Zidane fans will be happy to know about this comment by Pele for sure I guess anyway though!
     
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  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    ...............
     
  7. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024








    ..........................
    Zinedine Zidane. This was the player who most took Pelé's breath away in the last ten years and he was the greatest since 1977, when the King retired. The revelation was made by Pelé at an event this Thursday, in São Paulo. Three-time world champion with the Brazilian team, the former Santos player highlighted the midfielder, 1998 World Cup champion and 2006 runner-up, as one of his favorite players:

    - The most complete was Zidane. We had (Johan) Cruyff, Zico was excellent, but he played at the same time as Pelé, Sócrates... In the last ten years, although there was Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, the most complete was Zidane - said the King.
     
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  8. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ............ was the Vincent or Kopa passing to the side of Roger Piantoni before the shot ?????
     
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ................ well Zinedine Zidane always is over with the Brazil since 1997 in tournoi du Paris ... 1X 1 later World Cup 1998 final ... later in 2004 Fifa century anniversary .. 0 x 0 .... later World Cup in 2006 quarter-finals .. in big games ... performing much better than Ronaldinho Gaucho for example ... Ronaldinho felt the pressure alot in big games ... but not Zidane ! he don't felt the pressure into the games ... learned alot with the losses against Bayern Munich 96 ... Dortmund 97 .. and Real Madrid 98 .
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'll just go and check on Footballia (I need to de-select a load of 'Legitimate Interest' cookies first though it seems!).
     
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  11. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    .............. For that !! David Beckham was a good player only he felt the pressure alot in big games .... against Brazil in 2002 .. he's with fear and with legs shaking of fear .. that's it man !
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    There was no direct assist - there was a foul on Kopa, then Vincent played the free-kick forwards to a French team-mate (it might be Fontaine, but it could be Wisnieski maybe - the number isn't visible in the footage) who plays a pass inside that deflects off a Brazilian player to Piantoni who then does a nutmeg/dribble and scores the solo goal that can be seen on the highlights.
     
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  13. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    ............... my dear late .. Raymond Kopa ... did a great World Cup in 1958 ... even being 6 matches 3 goals ..... 7 assists or 9 assists to keep going or being a great World Cup performances ever ... even Jonquet injured in 43 minutes in the first half ... so France stands with 10 men all the rest ofthe match against Brazil of Pelé ...Garrincha.. Zagallo ..Didi ...Zito...Vava ..Nilton Santos ... was a dream team of all times at all !!!
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, true - this is a good video for Kopa/Didi from that game anyway:

    And this one for Kopa vs W.Germany
     
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  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ............ well ... Raymond Kopa ... 6 matches .... 3 goals .... 7 assists and 1 pre-assist ..!! by the way ! in 1958 !
     
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  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think probably it was Fontaine who played the pass inside by the way (just I find it hard to be certain in identifying him for sure at that moment in the footage) - Wisnieski does have fairer hair I remember now so I don't think it is him (and it is not Piantoni obviously, or Vincent, or Kopa of course). Anyway, it is not a direct assist for any player because of a significant deflection.
     
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  17. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    .......... France 1958 gave too much Bad Lucky ... to play against Brazil " dream Team " in 1958 .... generally all the brazilian players from 1970 " World Cup " Rivellino ... Pelé... Carlos Alberto Torres ... Jairzinho ..Clodoaldo ..Gerson... Brito ..Felix ..Piazza .. they've spoken ... 1958 team was much better than 1970 team ... all the players speaking this here in Brazil always ..
     
  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ................ is harder by image ... to be too much darker on the screen .... i had the same difficults to see very very well Kopa's assists ... i look around . looking always by the number 18 .. ! ahhahaahahahahahhahha ! But is harder always to check the assists from the past ...ahaha
     
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  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, I remember Pele also said the same in his autobiography (that he thought the 1958 team was better). I think I tend to agree overall on the 1958(potentially 1962 with Pele not injured) team being better, but I think the 1970 team was a little better in the aspect of playing cohesively from defence to attack (keeping possession of the ball more carefully and better in deep positions, generally).
     
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  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    .............. Yes ... 1958 ... was much more attacking mode, dynamic, a faster game ....a maniac game and 1970 by Roberto Rivellino and Tostão was much more artistic and a beautiful game with a lower pace and sprint speed ... !!
     
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  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, although Didi did provide the more casual and cultured side for the 1958 team as well for example (infamously it seems he was too casual and methodical in his style for Di Stefano's liking when he went to Madrid I think?); but I think more often the midfield was by-passed too with longer balls played up towards Pele, Garrincha etc (and Pele was playing in a more individualistic way compared to in 1970 of course, so him, Garrincha etc were trying to be incisive and direct as much as possible I think, so sometimes it can lead to loss of possession...but it can also lead to chances and openings).
     
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  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ....................... yes ... that's it man Perfect vision ... well honestly.. I saw All the matches from 1958 and 1962 ,, .. of course .. don't remember of all ... all the plays already ... 1958 and 62 ... the secret is the based for the teams from Santos FC and Botafogo RJ ... i mean ... Zagallo take the corner-kicks even at Brazillian National team side and Botafogo from Rj ... Zagallo took the corner-kick in the near post by Mané Garrincha even at Botafogo .. he does it direct those lances , plays ... team work .... Zagallo was dynamic... faster ... too much agility ... marking very very well .good tackles ...stamina ... Didi was the black Zidane ... !!!
     
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  23. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ..............Yes a maniac game this is Mané Garrincha .. Mario Zagallo ... Vava ... Pelé ... Zito ...
     
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    .................... 1958 ... !!!
     
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  25. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #250 carlito86, May 25, 2024
    Last edited: May 25, 2024
    I think there’s a perfectly good reason why Marco Van basten scored those types of dribbling goals in Dutch domestic league football and never scored any type of world class dribbling goal in any other arena.
    Be it at Milan playing against the other best teams in Italy or against the worst teams in Italy

    or ever in his entire international career
    And no the reason is not just his ankle

    cristiano Ronaldo scored solo goals in sporting Lisbon(17 years old)


    he scored solo goals at Manchester United

    22 years old

    he scored solo goals at Real Madrid

    25 years old

    and he scored solo goals at juventus


    this last one on his 35th birthday
    8/02/2020

    I only pick one for each club represented otherwise I’d be flooding this entire page with videos

    Goals by Marco Van basten that involve him scoring after he carried the ball from deep don’t exist after 1987

    solo goals of Marco Van basten dribbling past multiple players(2 or more) in tight areas don’t exist in any setting except that of Dutch football

    they don’t exist against any other team except ones that were part of the Eredivisie
    The Elo ranking of the Eredivisie during the prime of Van basten was trash
    These are just the facts and not ones I invented either
    IMG_1399.jpeg
    IMG_1397.jpeg
    IMG_1398.jpeg


    https://www.elofootball.com/country.php?countryiso=NLD&season=1984-1985
    https://www.elofootball.com/country.php?countryiso=NLD&season=1985-1986
    https://www.elofootball.com/country.php?countryiso=NLD&season=1986-1987

    @Wiliam Felipe Gracek probably won’t like what I’m saying but the truth of the matter is that what I’m saying about the eredivisie doesn’t nearly affect his favourite player Ruud gullit as much as it affects Marco Van basten.

    Ruud gullit was visibly a superior dribbler to Marco Van basten when playing together for Milan in Serie A
    As was probably donadoni in all likelihood aswell

    He(gullit)was a superior ball carrier and he was a superior passer

    the only notable area of football that Milan era Marco Van basten was superior to Ruud gullit in was finishing inside of the box with his feet because even in the air we could arguably say they were fairly equal too

    solo goals anyhow are only one part of dribbling ability
    Many dribbling specialists who lacked the finishing component hardly if ever scored a single solo goal in their entire career.

    andres iniesta being a prime example of that and i think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who believes Marco Van basten was a comparable dribbler to iniesta.


    One thing we have with cristiano is numbers and numbers are irrefutable

    he is the player who was the top dribbler in a World Cup campaign(2006) and the champions league(2006/07)during a 12 month period

    https://x.com/OptaJohan/status/607193601085292546


    He was the top overall dribbler in the premier league over a 6~ year period
    https://x.com/OptaJose/status/1260989936972546049
    this when the premier league was either first or second best league in the world
    Not 7th or 9th


    and he is one of the top dribblers in champions league history

    if all those facts existed for Marco Van basten and not cristiano I wouldn’t even dare attempt make the case for cristiano being in the same realm of dribbling ability as van basten

    I just wouldn’t

    admitting Cristiano was a vastly superior dribbler to Marco Van basten puts our dear friend @PDG1978 in a uncomfortable position because he aswell as I knows that if that is the case then Marco Van basten would have no case against cristiano in talent

    can we really say cristiano is definitely an inferior finisher to Van basten when cristiano is the FIFA officially recognised top goalscorer in the history of football
    Can we?

    that leaves passing and I don’t mind talking about that either
     

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