I'd frame it differently. It's going to take different performance on the field for the ratings to be seen as different. You're right - a team that was in the top 25 nationally may be now in the top 100 nationally, and aren't nearly as competitive as they were 2 or 3 years ago. But in the IL market - they are still beating their peer clubs - as recently as this current season, as recently as this month. If all of the turmoil (well-documented above) continues to weaken their teams, we can all extrapolate. But it's a future prediction - not a description of what's already happened.
You both are making the same point. The other poster knows they took more players than you can roster for specific games. If the parents were told back in March tryouts that the national team roster was going to be 22 or 25, or whatever it was, that’s fine. However, that’s not what happened it was done very late after all other clubs finalized the vast majority of their rosters. Players and families were mostly boxed in. I agree with your number, but does that strike you as odd? The self proclaimed top club in the state could only convince 10 players to sign? Now the 2009 are losing players from a top team to Rockford and a few to Inter (I think)… 2012 age group should be equally interesting. I know they have offered multiple “national pool” spots or whatever they call it, to players that got 2nd / 3rd team offers from both Galaxy and Inter. Will also be interesting to see how the existing 2012 Rampage group, existing 2012 Eclipse group, plus the other new players they took all fight for what amounts to 15 meaningful roster spots that have been promised to 25+ players. I suspect that there will be many unhappy families.
At least to players, Conference rankings matter more than the statistical rankings. How do you think the 2010 eclipse teams feels being #1 on the app but middle of the pack in the conference. Last I heard they were out of the playoffs.
I'm not disagreeing in the least, please don't think I believe what you are saying is incorrect. But most of those same players don't have the choice of any of the teams that are besting them in the standings unless they want to commute for hours and hours every week. They do not have a choice to join a stronger team/club unless their family is either willing to move or to have a hellish commute. Best case - there are plenty of strong clubs locally to pick from - but up until now that hasn't been the viewpoint of those footing the bills for their kids; perhaps it will be at some point.
It has started to happen and will continue to happen. 2-2 06/05 eclipse vs 06/05 rockford 2-2 06/05 eclipse vs 06/05 inter 1-1 2007 eclipse vs 2007 Inter 0-0 2007 eclipse vs 2007 Rockford 2-3 2009 eclipse vs 2009 Rockford Not impressed? The above results would be UNTHINKABLE two years ago.
Also - keep in mind that the SR rankings are directly tied to the ECNL rankings; it's looking at the same exact games - but includes any tournaments or other recorded games as well. Here's what that 2010G Midwest standings bracket looks like, with the ratings and national ranks included. It's exactly what you might expect, with a few moderate outliers (like Liverpool FC IA Michigan doing unexpectedly well, which should result in an improved ranking).
There should be a new system for tryouts. Overcommitting players to a team seams to be a classic move most clubs do in the hopes that they can build a secondary or even third team. When they don’t get enough players, how do they handle telling the parents? I’ve only seen this happen once and parents were NOT happy. Can’t imagine if it was a higher level team.
Eclipse lost two players in the middle of the season to a ECNL club in Michigan. They are commuting four hours each way.
If those kids aren't on the USWNT right now, their parents are insane. (and they might still be, even if they were called up)
It has been my experience that a number of clubs (Galaxy, Inter, etc.) offers are for specific teams GA or RL. I would be very cautious about an offer that is not tied with a team. I am guessing that if a coach does not specify a first team spot, you are probably being considered for the second team or bottom of first team (if no one better doesn't show up.)
Too many subjects to quote everything relevant, but my 2 cents. YMMV. - I’ve personally seen the offer letter for both the national team and regional teams at eclipse, and each clearly states what team you are on. And in the case of the regional team it says “eligible for call ups to national practices and games” based on performance - which is as it should be. - If there is a third form letter out there it shouldn’t be that hard to find, and I could easily expect that the 2012 age group might be run as a pool while they figure things out. There are a lot of parents and kids with an overinflated opinion of their abilities, and just because you are on a strong performing team at U12, doesn’t mean that an individual will be a top performer at the national Ecnl level. That all needs time to sort itself out and I’d think a pool is a logical way to do it so long as it’s upfront. - I don’t understand why people get so worked up or read so much into player comings and goings. Check any region - it’s common. Players change, parents change. Various 2009 players left because they wanted more PT and it’s a deep and competitive group. At least one 2008 player went to Hawks because they desired a position change. Good players leave clubs other than Eclipse all the time. - It will be interesting to see what happens with Galaxy and its massive influx of evolution players. It was already a large club and they won’t all fit on the GA teams, so odds would tell you that they’ll be some unhappy campers over time. Again perfectly normal. Inter should benefit from this. - we check the magic app heading into every game and it’s proven to be very accurate! Within a goal 85 percent of the time. I’m a believer. - At the end of the day I think the best things that any parent can do is good market research and having a realistic view of your kids ability. If you’re on the bench of a great team, but your kid is happy, then just enjoy it. If you are thinking of switching teams then consider all the factors relevant to you - cost, ability, end-game, travel, friendships, etc. Make an informed decision, but always remember that these clubs are “for profit”, so no matter how good your kid is that you are just a drop in the ocean to their business as a going concern.
Talent ID is part of the tryout process. Eclipse and Rampage coaches are essentially the same, both clubs have existing 2012 teams. If they can’t already determine which current players can compete on NL or RL, that’s a direct reflection on their ability (inability) to ID talent. Are you saying the club did that? I agree with you that each of those kids should have a very clear idea if they are NL or Rl caliber. Player and Parent opinions shouldn’t matter that’s on the coach to bring them back to reality. If a player gets better they can move up, rosters change every year. I’m my opinion a pool is just for $$. 18 kids is already a lot when you consider substitution rules. Then you already have RL players you could bring up as well. Anyway, everyone can make their own choices.
I don’t have any specific intel on the 2012’s - if there is a merged pool or named teams or something in between. I was merely speculating on what might be happening for that age group based on what another poster described as “offers without naming what team they are on”. I generally agree that pools are not good for anyone but the ownership pocketbook. But I would say that in a year 1 move to ECNL situation might be a little more complicated because you are really creating a new team to compete on the national stage, which is a step up. So my sense is there is some actual benefit by making it a more flexible situation and seeing what works best to form the core of the team for the future. I’d hope by the end of the fall season the pecking order would be settled - at least in the coaches eyes. Parents will have their own opinions….
That Galaxy 08 team has been killing teams and drawing attention for years. I’ve been paying attention to them for a long time and it’s a lot of the same girls for years now. BT has been their coach forever and he is damn good. But parents and kids don’t have that kind of patience and loyalty anymore. I don’t think those girls will have any problems succeeding but we have to agree that the situation and history of that team is rare.
They look to be a fantastic team, with they and TopHat the only GA teams nationally in the top 20. However, it can't be as fulfilling as some on the team might want; they are the 15th ranked team in the nation, yet they have seen only the 320th hardest schedule, projected to beat each opponent by an average of almost 5 goals. Odds are some or even most of the girls will see real/consistent competition only after they join their college squad.
I have been around a long time and have seen a lot of rankings. I will give some recognition to these rankings, in that they are probably the most accurate I have seen over the years, however, I am not sure that I lend much credibility to the SOS part. That is largely contingent on the state you play, and the quality of the teams below you. For as many top teams as you can play at tournaments, if your regular competition is lower than other groups (i.e. Texas, Florida area, California, etc.) than that will really drop your SOS. Look at results against other top teams and that tells you what you need to know, ignore the noise.
You either believe the math or you don't. You can't pick and choose what you agree with and what you don't, when they are based on the same exact data. Well you can, of course, it just doesn't track. Anyone can certainly choose to believe whatever they like, based on whatever they feel matches best with their existing views. Two things (and more) can be completely accurate and truthful at the same time. The team is fantastic. The team is first in state. The team has the 8th strongest schedule for 2008G teams in its state. Their team schedule is #324 (today) in the country. If you look at similar strength schedules in state, the top RL teams are seeing about the same level as them. The teams seeing the toughest competition are Eclipse, Inter, and Rockford at #1, #2, and #3 in state, yet even they aren't seeing the top #100 schedule in the country. In all of the game history assigned to that Galaxy 2008 team, there is nothing at all recorded other than them beating up relatively weak GA teams. Other than the GA season, the only other thing showing in their history is playing a GA championship showcase, and they convincingly slammed all 3 teams 6-1, 1-0, and 7-0; yet those teams are ranked #87, #177, and #523 respectively. If nothing changes, the conference (other than them) remains noticeably weak, and they don't find a way to put harder teams on their schedule, they will likely have maxed out their rating - as they are already destroying anyone in their path convincingly. If they are already facing (or have faced) harder teams, but the games aren't loaded due to the same team entering under a different name or other reasons, those should be pointed out so the team can get credit for all of its fantastic gameplay. As of now it shows they have never even faced a team in the top #50, and that showcase game is the single game in their history that they saw a team in the top #100. Full game history:
As someone who has been on all three sides of the equation (parent, club coach, club rep) I can tell you definitively the only ones who really care about the rankings are the parents, no club is going out of their way to update a ranking that isn't automated, unless they are trying to fool people into thinking they are better than they are, those clubs chase rankings. ( I do not believe this Galaxy team is one of those)
Right - and the ones funding the entire enterprise are also the parents. Clubs/teams that ignore rankings in 2024 and are also selling the elite/premier/bestest/awesome pathway, are doing so at their own risk. In this case, for this team, there is certainly no need for them to do anything at all differently in any way - they are clearly fantastic, and their game history and generated rating/ranking due to it shows exactly that. It's also now much more transparent to all about the teams that they are typically facing. I agree with you - clubs/teams that are trying to "chase rankings" by playing down or seeking other ways to game the system, were quite able to in the past with some systems that rely on bonus points and other incentives to favor their own tournaments. In one recent case in one system, the "#3 in state" out of hundreds of teams, has a losing record in a league that is several steps down from the top, due to an insane amount of bonus points given to a poorly attended tournament. But SR isn't vulnerable in this way, all that matters is the strength of the other team on the other side of the field. Playing down, up, or sideways doesn't matter in the least. If teams augment themselves by fielding other kids - that team will continue to be rated due to the performance on the field with whichever kids are there.
A quick look at Twitter - a couple of girls on that team posted about recent friendlies against Indy Premier and they even played in a showcase vs. Nationals and Midwest United back in January/February. Looks like they beat Indy Premier 2-1. Not sure on the scores of the showcase games. I assume that the girls, coaches and club don't post about EVERY game that is played but it does seem like they are attempting to compete at a higher level. They also played at the Chicago Inter showcase (not sure what teams they played). While the ranking you are looking at are accurate, they are accurate only for games that "count" or games that are tracked. We don't know what else they are doing or games they are playing because it certainly seems like they are all not tracked.
If it isn't findable online - it didn't happen. Friendlies don't count, and likely shouldn't (just as forfeits don't count). Though of course friendlies against competitive teams will be good training for both sides. Looking at Nationals and Midwest United, I see no games on either of their histories against Galaxy either. Either the girls played on different teams, they were all friendlies, or a tournament happened without any scores being recorded (highly unlikely). Indy Premier, which they beat 2-1 on 2/11, is a very good team. It's also #114 nationally, with 113 other teams - including Galaxy 08, expected to beat it. Last year for the Chicago Inter tournament, Galaxy 08 Elite 64 played, and won convincingly. Is that E64 team the same as the GA team? Neither the 2022 E64 league nor the 2023 Inter Tournament playing as an E64 team are linked - but for the 22 one it shows a different coach name, no coach is listed for the 23 tournament.
I'm not sure on the E64 thing. I see no mention of E64 on the social media that I'm looking at and the team that won the USYS national championship is Galaxy C v C? So who the heck knows what that top team is even listed as. I know that at one point Galaxy had at least 2, maybe 3 08 teams. My points are that 1) you mention the girls might not be feeling fulfillment. That can be achieved by playing in competitive games and 2) the college coaches know what they are looking at. Someone mentioned that there were 75 coaches at the Cali event? I might not be correct but I'm getting the vibe that maybe you don't think they are as good as their record shows so I'm just trying to make the point that the rest of the world seems to think they are. You are pointing to the game history that shows the SOS and that theirs isn't high but that doesn't include ALL games played. All I know is that "important" people are taking notice of this team for some reason...that much is obvious.
I'm not trying to give off a vibe in either direction. I think it's pretty clear. They are a fantastic team. They also have no recorded games against any notable teams. Both are true. If they are able to play more challenging teams in any arena (practice, friendly, pickleball), of course it is a positive experience. Of course there must be some amazing players on that team. It also seems that they won't regularly see other opposing amazing players until one of those college coaches is lucky enough to land them. For one thing, a missing game or 3 or 5 isn't going to affect anything material in terms of their rating/ranking/schedule/etc. It only takes 8 - 10 recorded games for all of it to be pretty solid. But in addition, where are the missing games that you are referring to? Where is the recorded game that isn't linked? Here's everything called "Galaxy" in 2008G IL for the past two years: Removing the IL and looking across the whole USA 2008G, everything listed appears to be a "Galaxy" in another state that has nothing to do with this team. Assuming that somewhere there must be records of them playing teams that would raise their rated schedule is a bit of a leap - and IMO it's pretty unlikely.
A Friendly vs a GA or ECNL team is probably more meaningful than some low level tournament game. I’d rather play friendlies vs a good club any day. How much would their strength of schedule improve if they beat Michigan Hawks 2008? If you’re saying a few games don’t matter, you could literally beat the number 1 team in the nation per you, yet still have a weak schedule. So what’s the point… just play your schedule.