Post-match: The Post Presidency :: Trump Faces The Music Thread

usscouse · Jun 10, 2023

superdave said: ↑

Thanks for talking me off the ledge.

OK, but doesn't that give Cannon the ability to kick the can far enough down the road that then they can't have a trial for a guy running for president?

I remember Trump on a nonsensical rant about toilet capacity when he was president...so what kind of toilet are we talking about here? An African or Eurpoean laden toilet?*

*My reference isn't out of date because the classics never go out of style.
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Depends on the size of the coconut.

usscouse · Jun 10, 2023

Cascarino's Pizzeria said: ↑

"Check out this top secret military info...but don't come that close to me"

Still amazed we survived this ignoramus.
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Remember early in 2016 when we laughed at the idea of this ? Being president???
Just don’t laugh this time. I hate to bring in Godwin if he makes it again.

usscouse · Jun 10, 2023

spejic said: ↑

That's just Federal crimes, right? He can only kill people on military bases and national parks.
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Bit of a dream from you two.
This guy would never get his hands dirty (bloody) he’d have one of his mafia hit men do it.
Then pardon him.

usscouse · Jun 10, 2023

roadkit said: ↑

It's Germany in 1933. Trump will never see the inside of the White House again.
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Yeah, go to jail, write your book “My Struggle” get out and become chancellor er president er dictator.

Umar · Jun 10, 2023

usscouse said: ↑

“If” Trump is found guilty. I assume the judge imposes sentencing.
Will community service work for him. ????
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If Aileen Cannon is sentencing, don’t be surprised if she sentences him to 4 years of community service being President for the American people.

yossarian · Jun 10, 2023

Mach1 said: ↑

Has the Supreme Court ever gone head to head against the president? I think it was in Marbury v. Madison where the court was worried if they ordered the president to do something and he ignored it, it could show the court as having no actual authority over the president. So in the ruling was basically "while we have the authority to order the president to do xyz, we have decided not to". Basically asserting they have authority, without actually testing that assertion.
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Mostly correct, but you've left out the most important part of the case. The Court did in fact rule that Marbury's commission was legal/proper and that a writ of mandamus was the proper remedy for obtaining his commission. It then further ruled that it had the power to order Madison to deliver the commission under normal circumstances. However, in this instance, the Judiciary Act of 1789 that provided the Court with jurisdiction in this type of matter was unconstitutional, thus the Court had no jurisdiction to hear Marbury's case as an original matter.

So yeah, a minor would-be magistrate didn't get his commission. But the Court asserted its responsibility to determine if statutes violate the Constitution---and that part stuck.

Mach1 said:

So let's say Trump gets back in power, pardons himself, the court says no....what happens? If Trump still insists that he has the power to pardon himself, who wins? Would the Supreme Court actually be willing to fight back, knowing if they lose they'll lose any impression that they're an equal part of the government?
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It depends on many things, but mostly on how much political clout/backing TFG would have for such conduct. For example, Jackson was unlikely to enforce the Supreme Court's decision in Worcester and given popular sentiment in Georgia that the State could deal with the Cherokee how it saw fit (and the lack of real centralized federal power at that point---at least not in the way we think of it), he probably would have gotten away with it if it had come to that. It didn't.

In contrast, the Court ordered Nixon to hand over the tapes and he did. But at that point, he hardly had a leg to stand on politically.

So I don't know for sure what would happen in your scenario. But I suspect that TFG wouldn't have the political clout to refuse to comply. Even with the impeachment stuff, we saw some Republicans waiver or refuse to support him. A federal conviction on multiple counts would increase that number significantly, I believe, but maybe I'm being naive.

yossarian · Jun 10, 2023

Umar said: ↑

If Aileen Cannon is sentencing, don’t be surprised if she sentences him to 4 years of community service being President for the American people.
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Yeah, I know you're making a joke---sort of--- but if a federal judge deviates from the sentencing guidelines, they have to provide fact based reasons for doing so and their decision in that regard is reviewed for abuse of discretion.

usscouse · Jun 10, 2023

Umar said: ↑

If Aileen Cannon is sentencing, don’t be surprised if she sentences him to 4 years of community service being President for the American people.
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That’s harsh.

Pønch · Jun 10, 2023

Deadtigers said: ↑

That's a true believer meeting. That's what my old boss called it. Anybody that schedules a meeting for late in the day Friday is really bad seeing who's going to find the way not to be there and who's going to be focus on the project and show up. Whoever that person is has power issues and is a complete asshole
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Not to mention a two and a half hour long meeting is ridiculous. If the subject is so complex that it needs that much time to discuss, you're better off breaking it down to smaller components over a few meetings.

ceezmad · Jun 10, 2023

Bootsy Collins said: ↑

Yep.

2016: no way he can talk his way out of this.
2017: he's toast.
2018: got him this time, he's done.
2019: he'll be forced out any moment.
2020: got him this time, he's done.
2021: he'll be in jail very soon.
2022: with all these investigations, no way he avoids jail time.
2023: got him this time, he's done.

How people are still able to be confident that he'll face real consequences for anything is just mind-boggling to me. It's as if they live in an alternate reality where the last seven years never happened.

If it happens, good; but I actually pay attention to what's happening around me and so will not expect it until it does.
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2024. No way he wins again.
2025. Ok he won, but there is no way he pardons himself.

Cris 09 · Jun 10, 2023

Republicans losing their shit on Twitter... Reading a lot of, "But her emails..." again as well as "But, Biden's Corvette".

The Jitty Slitter · Jun 10, 2023

Imagine if you voted for trump

dapip · Jun 10, 2023

Somehow this behavior is Ok with 40%+ of the voters:

Trump began his speech by complaining about his federal indictment. He then pivoted to whining about his possible indictment in Georgia. Now he's talking about his indictment in Manhattan. This guy is the GOP presidential frontrunner. It's mind-boggling. pic.twitter.com/r34evtQPoa
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 10, 2023

soccernutter · Jun 10, 2023

dapip said: ↑

Somehow this behavior is Ok with 40%+ of the voters:

Trump began his speech by complaining about his federal indictment. He then pivoted to whining about his possible indictment in Georgia. Now he's talking about his indictment in Manhattan. This guy is the GOP presidential frontrunner. It's mind-boggling. pic.twitter.com/r34evtQPoa
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 10, 2023

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It's a cult.

dapip · Jun 10, 2023

Q: So when did the DOJ start treating removal of classified documents like a felony anyway?
A: When President Trump signed a 2018 law making it a felony. pic.twitter.com/KA6RKYlQ8L
— Jeff Yarbro (@yarbro) August 9, 2022

dapip · Jun 10, 2023

Law and order party!

Georgia law enforcement officers with federal and state indicted felon. pic.twitter.com/Pu7jdBRxi5
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) June 10, 2023

Deadtigers · Jun 10, 2023

The Jitty Slitter said: ↑

Imagine if you voted for trump
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He has policies that are good for my family

chaski · Jun 10, 2023

Deadtigers said: ↑

He has policies that are good for my family
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So, you are a millionaire.

Cascarino's Pizzeria · Jun 11, 2023

Deadtigers said: ↑

He has policies that are good for my family
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And doshgarnit - he tells it like it is!

Cascarino's Pizzeria · Jun 11, 2023

dapip said: ↑

Law and order party!

Georgia law enforcement officers with federal and state indicted felon. pic.twitter.com/Pu7jdBRxi5
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) June 10, 2023

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Periodic reminder that they're not on our side if shit ever goes down.

Q*bert Jones III · Jun 11, 2023

Cascarino's Pizzeria said: ↑

Periodic reminder that they're not on our side if shit ever goes down.
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They never were.

Deadtigers · Jun 11, 2023

Pønch said: ↑

Not to mention a two and a half hour long meeting is ridiculous. If the subject is so complex that it needs that much time to discuss, you're better off breaking it down to smaller components over a few meetings.
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Or email. Plenty of meetings can be solved in an email.

dapip · Jun 11, 2023

Is this real? Damn, he’s completely lost it!

“I am now forced to use the #SecretPardon I have had all the time that absolves me of all crimes. I am also claiming #MarALago as a #SovereignNation of #MagaLand and expect #RonInBootsDesantis to keep the #DeepState from attesting your favorite president.[sic]” -#DefendantTrump pic.twitter.com/f3PWOBunr8
— CHUNTERKAP (@chunterkap) June 11, 2023

soccernutter · Jun 11, 2023

dapip said: ↑

Is this real? Damn, he’s completely lost it!

“I am now forced to use the #SecretPardon I have had all the time that absolves me of all crimes. I am also claiming #MarALago as a #SovereignNation of #MagaLand and expect #RonInBootsDesantis to keep the #DeepState from attesting your favorite president.[sic]” -#DefendantTrump pic.twitter.com/f3PWOBunr8
— CHUNTERKAP (@chunterkap) June 11, 2023

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It's fake.

Chicago76 · Jun 11, 2023

Mach1 said: ↑

Has the Supreme Court ever gone head to head against the president? I think it was in Marbury v. Madison where the court was worried if they ordered the president to do something and he ignored it, it could show the court as having no actual authority over the president. So in the ruling was basically "while we have the authority to order the president to do xyz, we have decided not to". Basically asserting they have authority, without actually testing that assertion.

So let's say Trump gets back in power, pardons himself, the court says no....what happens? If Trump still insists that he has the power to pardon himself, who wins? Would the Supreme Court actually be willing to fight back, knowing if they lose they'll lose any impression that they're an equal part of the government?
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Before we even worry about the self pardon SCOTUS standoff, I think we need to examine how Trump could even be elected at this point. Maybe I haven’t learned my lesson and continue to hide voters too much credit, but the odds of him getting completely destroyed (2020 map + Dem flip of TX, NC and FL) is much better the Trump finding a way to 270. I think can easily see him winning the nomination, but the only way I can see him beating Biden with this hanging over him is if Biden is incapacitated by Election Day.

Biden on life support v Trump on his way to (or in) prison might be competitive. Might.