England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

It’s hard to say anyone who only played for the seniors from 1971-1979 particularly excelled considering the lack of any tournaments during that time.

 

There was a 'lack of tournaments' because the players we had weren't good enough to help us qualify!

 

Stones moving into midfield get Ben white in at cb another ball player

 

I am not sure he is interested in returning.

Because of the relative lack of options I don’t think he will move Stones anytime soon but like many issues it will be heavily debated on social media and the press with White and Tomori the main players people will want to replace Stones.

Squad meet up today so we will get updates regarding Bellingham/Saka and any other withdrawals and late call ups.

June camp. Let's go! 🙌#ThreeLions | @LGUK pic.twitter.com/fkBky4pLr5

— England (@England) June 11, 2023

 

Personally I'd love to see Pep manage England but it remains to be seen if his philosophy could be transferred to an international side given the shorter window to work with players.

Worth remembering that John Terry was voted into the FIFPRO world team of the year 5 times. This is an award voted for by fellow professionals. Only Sergio Ramos has been voted in more times as a centre back since the award was introduced.

I saw an interview with Robin Van Persie recently and he said that John Terry was the most intelligent centre back that he ever played against. He was referring to the individual battles and games of bluff the players have against their markers. He said you never knew how Terry would play his man so he was always left guessing. Harry Kane also chose Terry and Chiellini as the best he faced.

"Early on facing John Terry, [he was] just a really smart defender, knew where to put his body, knew how to stop my runs, so that was a great learning curve.

I thought this was interesting because how many fans would describe John Terry as an intelligent defender? Let alone one the most intelligent of his generation. These kind of individual battles are something that the average fan has no insight in to. It just goes to show that for all the pontificating we fans are in the dark about so much of what goes on in the game.

Ramos has been voted in to the FIFPRO world team of the year 11 times but there are loads of fans that claim he's overrated. I think the average fan is generally only really able to comprehend on the ball actions. Things like off the ball movement, tactical discipline, pressing, leadership and one on one battles are not generally understood. Ramos used to make a fair few bloopers so I think that sticks in the mind of many but his fellow pros obviously felt that he more than compensated for those occasional shortcomings.

I think you see the same with Mason Mount. He's been credibly linked with Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal while his England teammate Maddison looks to be going to Spurs at the moment. You hear most fans saying that Maddison is miles better than him but it appears that those at the top of the game have the opposite opinion.

 

Ramos was sent off a record number of times. So his movement wasn't that good

 

Most of this is just players at the big clubs get lots of scrutinty and rival fans hating on them. Look at how Maguire went from being a cult figure for England at Leicester to being derided pretty much as soon as he moved to Man United and then eventually hated.

Or Grealish was a massively popular player for fans when he was at Vila, but then he moved to City and suddenly the obsession with him definitely having to start for England every match disappeared straight away. Even now he's a regular for City the clamour for him never reaches anything like the levels it did when he was in a relegation battling Villa side.

I'm also fairly skeptical over how Guardiola would translate to international football, it already takes most players who join City at least a season to up speed with his tactics (of course, there are the odd exception like Haaland). With England this year for example, you get one week with the squad 5 times in the year - with 2 matches played in that week so minimal training anyway. Very little time to be drilling anything complex into the side tactically. Of course Guardiola is a very talented manager who could adapt, but i'd not necessarily expect it - Luis Enrique and Hansi Flick were both the highest rated managers at the last world cup based on club work and both flopped for example.

 

The same sort of reaction you describe that non big club players gets applies to players playing abroad.

Potter could have the same issue of adapting. His Brighton side took time to come together and Chelsea never did.

 

Welcome back, boss! 👋

Gareth Southgate congratulates our @ChampionsLeague and @europacnfleague winners and looks ahead to an important camp for the #ThreeLions: pic.twitter.com/qDry4g2cRy

— England (@England) June 11, 2023

 

The scrutiny of playing for a top club plays a part in perceptions but it's far from the full story. Most football fans are convinced that Mount is a terrible player yet so many top managers want him to play for them. There's a massive disconnect between fan perception and his status in the game. It can only be that most fans do not understand what he offers or how it contributes to how a team plays.

Maddison does look the more eye-catching player when you simply consider on the ball actions. He's has a lovely first touch and close control while being a free kick expert and scores some raspers from distance. The issue with him has to be off the ball which is more and more important in the modern game. Tielemans is similar. He can play some lovely long passes and scores some fantastic long-range efforts and he was generally very highly rated among fans yet the best club he could get on a free transfer was Aston Villa! Obviously Maddison and Tielemans are very good players but it seems the demand for them is at a level lower than it is for Mount. I bet if you did a poll on Twitter 90% plus of fans would prefer Maddison or Tielemans to Mount to sign for their clubs.

 

🚨 Newcastle are set to beat Tottenham to the signing of James Maddison.

Not a good start for Ange! 😬

(Source: @SkySportsNews) pic.twitter.com/gIFMy3YveZ

— Transfer News Live (@DeadlineDayLive) June 11, 2023

 

Its a good signing for Newcastle if true.

 

he is comfortably our best cb after stones and can play right back

seems mad the mess hasn’t been sorted and he’s back in

 

A much better move than Spurs as Newcastle could reach the top of the game with their resources.

He doesn't even play centre back for Arsenal so I'm not sure how he could be considered our second best centre back. I'm sure that Southgate is speaking to him but if he wants to play centre back for England he really needs to be playing it for his club.

 

Who knows what the phone call in March involved (Southgate said he spoke to him but that he didn’t speak to him this time around.)

 

Yeah something kicked off in the camp

he’s played inverted fullback a lot which is a position taa is better in too

Walker is a bit overly defensive, especially if Southgate isn’t using many midfield playmakers

 

I do wonder if they were issues before that. He was not called up in Autumn 2021 for whatever reasons and then was dropped in September 2022 as well.

 

Clearly something pretty bad went down for White to leave the squad permanently in the world cup, I can never recall that happening before for England. Don't think there's an easy fix there.

At any rate I don't really see what purpose would be served moving Stones, he was trained for a very specific role at City and to play that role everyone else has to be specifically trained to that system. We always have this with England were people want to adopt flavour of the month tactical changes and ignore all the other people in the club system who are trained to make it work.

I don't think there's even anything wrong with the 4-3-3 system England have adopted since the world cup (quite the oppposite), it can be optimised with some player tweaks but we look very competitive in it. England have been an absolute mess trying to play 3-4-3 for as long as Southgate has tried it, so lord knows why anyone would want us to try and adopt a yet more complex system.

 

The team vs Malta if we're not picking west ham players and man city players. Also Bellingham probably injuried.

----------------------------Pickford

Trent------------Miggs----------------Maguire-------Shaw


---------Maddison------Henderson---------Eze


-------Saka---------------Kane---------------Rashford.

Thats assuming Rashford doesn't pull out. If he does I'd move Maddison up front and replace him with Gallagher in Midfield.

 

Pretty sure it’s never happened before and the fact the journalists who are in the England pool also repeat the original Daily Star report as if it was confirmed is telling.

 

Dunk and Bellingham both out. No replacements planned. Looks like we might have a bench of 6 in Malta including two goalies.

An update from the #ThreeLions camp, as Lewis Dunk withdraws from the squad due to injury. pic.twitter.com/6CYbeB9ZKq

— England (@England) June 11, 2023

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Bellingham’s importance very much highlighted by being allowed to recuperate at St George’s Park.

It's #ThreeLions time! 😀 pic.twitter.com/4KOaMl7NXn

— England (@England) June 11, 2023

 

Good to see Bellingham joining up even though he is injuried. Shows how much he enjoys being involved. Wonder if thats the last time we see Dunk near an England squad?

 

Maybe but he still has a chance next season. Southgate might fell he needs to honour a call up and use him in one of the two friendlies.

 

Maybe Dunk's not interested in international football anymore. The injury maybe a smoke screen.