All Champions League Finals (1956-2019)

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by baochumong, Nov 9, 2021.

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  1. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  2. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #102 baochumong, Jun 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2023
    What makes a football powerhouse?
    There are at least 7 factors that are essential to the developement of football of a nation.
    And first 3 that i list here are the most important ones.

    1) Population (huge & dense)

    Having a huge population equals to having alot teams to play against each other. And if the population is concentrated in a few regions instead of being scattered all over a nation, it would take much less travel time & travel expense for all teams to play against each other. Simply put, living in a huge & dense population allow footballers (even at a recreational level) to play against as many teams as the footballers can afford to visit and thus accumulate as much gametime as they possibly can. It is simple math really: more teams + less travel time & travel expense = more gametime for everyone.

    Furthermore when you take into account the number of stuffs that can help an athlete gain more popularity (like numbers of TV viewership, youtube views & social media followings from a population, influential media & news sites, global reach of clubs, etc...), you can see that only the biggest sport names in America or in populous parts of Europe can become the biggest sport names of the world.

    Now what are the good examples of a nation's population density affecting its club football? Just take a look at France. French club football being the worst of big 5 is partly due to the uniform distribution of the French population. Since France has the least amount of urban centers among the big 5, French club football has never been able to utilize the huge size of French population to its maximum potential. Only Paris & its surrounding areas plus Southern France are the French regions with a really competitive club football.

    Also the factor of population size somewhat explains why Russia & Ukraine - the populous part of eastern europe - have better records in ucl qualifications than Scandanavian nations who have too small of talent pool to compete in football. However somebody will argue with me that "China, India & America are populous but they are not good at football". Well i will say that population alone is not enough. You need to take into account the level of interest on the sport & the kind of money spenders that these 3 biggest nations itw have. A populous nation can not simply become a football powerhouse by solely relying on the manpower that the nation possesses. It still needs to have many people of all ages view the sport as part of their culture or even their religion.

    2) Level of interest

    So where does football rank in your country? How good are those who play soccer at just recreational level? If your nation has a low population + soccer not being no1 there, you wont be able to compete against small euro & small latin american countries where soccer is the no1 sport. Nevertheless if your nation has a huge & dense population, you still have the human resources to be the best in the world at multiple sports despite those sports not being the no1 sport in the country.

    3) Economy (market of sport consumers & good investors)

    What is the amount of money that people are willing to spend to support their local club or their fav player? Lets take a look at Chinese Super League. The league does not generate much revenue because Chinese consumers are not spending much on sport entertainment but on buying real estates. What the CSL has shown is that when the club does not earn enough money to pay its players a living wage then the players' level of professionalism would be low. Only when the club earns more than enough money to pay its players the wage of a professional player, it can then invest more into its academies & sport infrastructures and even borrows some money without hurting the long term financial stability of the club.

    Then there is the problem with tax regulations. If the tax rates are too high on rich folks, it would be harder for the club to attract superstar players who demand high wages. This also explains why French club football is the worst of big 5. In order to recruit & retain the same star players, French clubs have to pay them top wages, which are higher than the high wages that other elite clubs can offer. And not many French clubs are willing to that.

    4) Research (data analysts contribute to the evolution of tactics, advancements in sport science lead to the improvement of fitness in modern day athletes and allow them to have longer career)

    5) Colonial Legacy (having better chance of attracting talents from other football powerhouses)

    6) Geography (being located next to other footballing powerhouses means more competition, more competion leads to constant self-improvement due to every competitor learning from each other or coming up with things to counter each other. Not having to face a neighbouring competition is why isolated, far away island nations can not do as well as interconnected mainland nations)

    7) Climate (outdoor activities not being hindered by the weather being too cold & snowy or too rainy)

    Football is an interesting sport. Not just due to its entertaiment value & intriguing tactical aspect but also being helpful for the analysis of a nation's characteristics or even a continent's characteristics.

    Tribute of footballers that makes them look like action movie heroes
     
  3. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #103 baochumong, Jun 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2023
    What i meant by using the term "Non Western countries" = Russia, Ukraine, China, etc...

    Additionally it should be rephrased that the table shows how much the best of pros make on average (about 1 mil euros per year for a footballer in big 5 leagues).

    But not all pros are high earners
    [​IMG]
     
  4. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #104 baochumong, Jun 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2023
  5. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #105 baochumong, Jun 8, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
    I've added a new group of football associations into my rankings. Its called "Occasional participants in only low tier club football tourneys". What does it mean? It means that these football associations did get qualified for Europa League or Europa Conference League. But the national teams from these football associations have never qualified for a major international football tourney (euro or wc).
    [​IMG]
    Based on international football records, i have to place Georgia at the top of the new group
    due to Georgia making it to league B of UEFA Nations League while all other associations in the new group are still staying in league C or D of UEFA Nations League.

    Kosovo is placed at the bottom of the new group due to Kosovo having only 1 Conference League participation & lacking h2h datas in club football & international football. Liechtenstein, Lithuania & Estonia all are equal with Kosovo in the number of Conference League participation but since the 3 associations (Liechtenstein, Lithuania & Estonia) have a good amount of h2h datas, it was easy for me to place them above Kosovo and then rank the 3 associations based on their h2h records against each other. Then there are 2 associations left to be ranked - Luxembourg & Armenia. These two have somewhat similar achievements in club football & international football (multiple qualifications to a low tier club football tourney, being close to the 95th position in the FIFA rankings & the Elo ratings). The 2 minor things that Armenia has over Luxembourg are the better h2h vs Georgia & the higher number of seasons of being in the top 45 of the UEFA coefficient rankings. However in terms of reputation, Armenia has quite some big problems in their club football while Luxembourg is aiming to be another Iceland and pouring investment into its stadium & academy. In short, the prospect of Luxembourgish football is better than that of Armenian football, and thus i have to rank Luxembourg above Armenia.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ropes-whipping-boys-transformation-pitch.html
    https://vk.com/wall-52709524_994077?lang=en
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...h-fixing-scandal-FIVE-teams-disqualified.html
    https://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2015/4/14/armenian-football-is-stuck

    Reputation of Armenian football
    h2h
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    club football rankings
    [​IMG]
    My updated rankings

    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    7) Russia
    8) Ukraine
    9) Netherlands
    10) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    11) Turkey
    12) Greece
    13) Switzerland
    14) Austria
    15) Scotland
    16) Czech Republic
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants
    17) Denmark
    18) Croatia
    19) Sweden
    20) Serbia
    21) Poland
    ==================== ↑ Top Representatives For A Region
    22) Norway
    23) Romania
    24) Bulgaria
    25) Slovakia
    26) Slovenia
    27) Hungary
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Tourneys of International Football & Club Football
    (Eastern Mediterranean)
    28) Israel
    29) Cyprus
    -------------------------
    (Former USSR)
    30) Belarus
    31) Kazakhstan
    32) Azerbaijan
    33) Moldova
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Club Football Tourneys
    (British Isles)
    34) Wales
    35) Republic of Ireland
    -------------------------------------
    (Western Balkan)
    36) Albania
    37) North Macedonia
    -------------------------------------
    (Ice Hockey nations)
    38) Finland
    39) Latvia
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants in Tourneys of International Football & Low-tier Club Football
    (Western Balkan)
    40) Bosnia & Herzegovina
    ------------------------------------------
    (North Atlantic Island)
    41) Iceland
    ------------------------------------------
    (British Isles)
    42) Northern Ireland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only International Football Tourneys
    (Caucasus)
    43) Georgia
    -------------------------------------
    (mini-state in Benelux)
    44) Luxembourg
    -------------------------------------
    (Caucasus)
    45) Armenia
    -------------------------------------
    (Basketball nations)
    46) Lithuania
    47) Estonia
    --------------------------------------------
    (micro-state in Switzerland)
    48) Liechtenstein
    --------------------------------------------
    (Western Balkan)
    49) Kosovo
    ==================== Occasional Participants In Only Low-tier Club Football Tourneys
     
  6. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    International Politics In Football Organizations
    In modern days being a UEFA chief = meeting with criminals. Ceferin revealed that as a UEFA chief, he has met many more criminals than when he worked as a lawyer whose job was to defend criminals in courtroom.

    The reality is that when you work in fifa or uefa, some compromises have to be made in order to bring other nations that have no rule of laws and are run by corrupt leaders into the world of football. Is this a negative thing or a positive thing? To me, its more positive than negative because it gives more common people a chance to see the performances of good teams & more athletes a chance to compete against them.
     
  7. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Why MLS being a retirement league both a good & a bad thing?
    The cons of being seen as the last destination for footballers:
    MLS is not taken seriously. I would even bet that the top Portuguese clubs would beat top MLS clubs because the top Portuguese clubs have been competing against the top clubs itw in ucl tourneys while the MLS dont.

    The pros of being a destination for footballers:
    US club football puts less pressure on footballers to perform on a weekly basis. Also America offers them good lifestyle, good enviroment for their families (schools, beaches, etc...) & bussiness opportunities for athletes after finishing their professional careers

    History


    Different specie


    Different Sportballs



    What an amazing sport. Not only bring different species together but also different sports together.
     
  8. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #108 baochumong, Jun 10, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2023
    Due to imgur being broken, i have to repost my images.
     
  9. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
     
  10. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  11. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Footballs with insane curve

     
  12. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Legoball


    You dont need a proper sportball to do a pen / freekick
     
  13. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021

    We have to give the English/British credits. Inventing a sport that the world (including their rival nations) enjoy is not an easy thing.

    How clean or dirty is football?

    Football clubs that are outside of the western world & football powerhouses like Brazil, Argentina, etc... dont make alot of profits & are not sought after by normal rich people. Such clubs can only be owned by the unusual rich people like politicians/oligarchs who see ownership of championship winning teams as a way to gain more reputation, to show off their wealth & their high social status or mafia-like people who have too much dirty money and thus are willing to spend those money on a club that doesnt give them much profits in return.
     
  14. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  15. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  16. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #116 baochumong, Jun 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2023


     
  17. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  18. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  19. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
     
  20. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Oh i forgot other things that contribute to an athlete's popularity: video games poster/cover

     
  21. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    In short, money in tech / finance / consumer goods manufacturing / energy / transport industry > money in sports.
     
  22. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #122 baochumong, Jun 28, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
    Double Bounce or Out Of Bound = Losing A Point


    Waterball

    Damn, soccer has so much variety. 1800s ball, big Yoga ball, small tennis ball, pain inducing Legoball, unpredictable waterball, airfloat ball with insane curve, etc...
     
  23. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
  24. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Red Star Belgrade - the most historic club of Eastern Europe. And the communist name "Red Star" makes the club even more historic.

    [​IMG]
    Unlike Steaua București who has been in decline since 2013-14 season, Red Star Belgrade is still participating in UCL in 2023.
     
  25. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #125 baochumong, Jul 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023

    Soccer rankings

    (Ice Hockey nations)

    38) Finland
    39) Latvia
    ====================
    40) Bosnia & Herzegovina
    41) Iceland
    42) Northern Ireland
    43) Georgia
    44) Luxembourg
    45) Armenia
    -------------------------------------
    (Basketball nations)
    46) Lithuania
    47) Estonia

    In soccer competition, Ice Hockey nations > Basketball nations


    So if any media tells you that you should play multiple different sports in order to become better at your best sport, its completely false. The right path is to play multiple sports that require similar skillsets (like being a goalie in both hockey & soccer).
     

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