Those first guys didn't play in MLS and started getting the experience in the better environment at 16/18. Yep, I missed Turner and Aaronson. Both have improved dramatically since leaving but don't see either as auto starters. Five players is actually pretty impressive. Id say their clubs did very good jobs with Adams, Aaronson, and Pepi. Trusty and Turner look to be strong competitors who have made the most of their opportunities. That isn't a bad record over the 5 or so years. If only this could be enough for MLS fans.
it isnt IMPOSSBILE for an MLS player to be good enough for the USMNT - many have in the past - the current crop??? nat really.... its mostly because europe is raiding MLS much much more than it used to..... if this was the old day, there would easily be 10-20 MLSers good enough for the USMNT in MLS right now thing is, the people who think that if you dont want these current MLSers that means you hate MLS and eny that any MLSers could ever be in MLS and as a result turn around and want a lot of MLS on the USMNT just to prove a point...
The gap is not as big as you wish it were. Many of our players in Europe go there not because they are a lot better than the guys in MLS, but because they got the right passport. We got 25 players relegated in the last two seasons in Europe. And this season only Ream, Jedi, Adams, and maybe McKenzie were playing at a level higher than MLS for enough minutes.
I am disappointed with the attention being given to the Inter Miami approach. I hope it is a flop on the pitch. I am pleased with the direction MLS is heading and hope that it continues to attract young talent on the way up. But as attendance solidifies, the salary rules need to be changed. And if community support continues to grow, perhaps in 10 years some sort of pro/rel could be possible. That said, Gregg wildly overvalued MLS talent (relative to Europe) over and over and over. It took him too long to come to the right conclusions in talent evaluation. He laughed off others’ opinions about his favorites right up until the last minute, and valued understanding his system over performance right up until the last minute. As a result we had an unnecessarily limited offensive plan that regularly failed to adapt after first contact with the adversary.
Yep. When Sargent is pretty much an auto starter on your squad going into a World Cup you’re kind of in trouble lol.
Tim Weah on #USMNT success over México: "(...) we are definitely a family & no one can take that away, you know, Gregg really helped us form this type of relationship with each other, so yeah, he was huge, huge important part of this team so hopefully, yeah hopefully comes back" pic.twitter.com/tKuwwufN4h— Michele Giannone (@MicheleG3) June 9, 2023 Hmmmmmm...... real deal or doctored Greggg propaganda?
I’m shocked! I expected a starter who scored a big World Cup goal under Berhalter should have nothing but negative things to say about him.
This is an interesting take and in some ways I agree but I think there are a few small but significant clarifications that need to be made. The "good enough for CONCACAF" meme has never been used by pro MLS fans to push "their guy". It HAS been used and, almost always is used by anti MLS fans to bash MLS players (rarely, if at all, to bash Euro players). I don't think either side ever uses it as a quality that qualifies a player for USMNT. What it comes down to is that the MLS "good enough for CONCACAF" players are competing against the Euro "good enough for CONCACAF" players. Sometimes there are two players that are relatively close and the coach has to choose one or the other, perhaps he is right, perhaps he is wrong or perhaps the two are so close that there is no right answer but those choices have two or more valid arguments. It is not like Berhalter or any other coach would choose Roldan over Pulisic. The other think is the age: "If the USMNT was serious, there wouldn't be an MLS player in the team over 20 or 21 years old." Interestingly enough, I think that is completely backwards. The highest ceiling US players in MLS, for the most part by far imo, are younger than 21 but they are not necessarily better than the prime age US MLS players. What's more, they tend to be less proficient/lower ceiling than the 20-21 year olds already in Europe. If a 20-21 year old in MLS is good enough to beat out a top young Euro based US player, he is likely to already be in Europe. I think there are fewer top US players 26/27 and above in Europe. As a result, that is the opening for top MLS players. Guys like Zimmerman, Miles Robinson, yes....even Roldan and Arriola. Who was Zimmerman competing with? we have some young talented defenders in Europe but we also had some critical injuries and none of the central defenders stood out as obviously a better choice than the MLS guys that made it (imo). I know many will argue Brooks. He has his obvious strengths. Perhaps he should have gone (I personally disagree), but come on! are you going to argue that he is a clear choice and there is no valid argument to keep him home? He had some real stinkers...ironically against CONCACAF teams (when it mattered). I fully expect that the number of MLS players will decrease as the young Americans (mostly in MLS now), mature and continue their careers in Europe. I also expect that the number of USMNT players coming from secondary leagues in Europe will also decrease.
This sort of weird fantasy definitely explains your nasty, invective filled rants toward him. You know he wasn't laughing at anyone, much less you personally?
Just about everyone here knows how I feel about the MLS and the overall quality of soccer in the USA. But that does not mean that others may well feel differently. It is possible: To love soccer and dislike the MLS. To love the MLS and hate other leagues anywhere in the world. To love even the lower European leagues and detest the MLS. To believe the MLS is primarily a development/retirement league and still love watching their soccer. To believe that some overseas league is the best in the world and also love watching USA soccer. To support the Women's team and detest the men's team. To support the Men's team and detest the women's team. To detest all USA soccer teams. To love all USA teams. To believe the MLS is one of the top 5 leagues in the world. To believe the MLS is one of the bottom 30 leagues in the world. To love statistical and tactical discussions. To hate statistical and tactical discussions. and I could go on and on and on, but I think the point is made. Many of those, even the ones that seem mutually exclusive, can be taken and the same time. There is no one "right" position or set of beliefs. Rather than discussing such sweeping divergent beliefs maybe we should discuss exactly what, if anything, was wrong with Gregg's style, or lack thereof. But I agree that this thread has deteriorated from its pretty low starting point and should, probably, be closed as it really has little to do with current reality and seems to be being used for, mostly, name calling and condemnation. Other threads that reached this point at least were somewhat fun. The "fun" left this thread months ago.
Maybe this is petty, but I’m having a hard time taking @FanOfFutbol seriously when he writes “the MLS” every time. 7 times he got the name wrong.
This is exactly the kind of useless post that continues in threads like this. Attacking grammar rather than presenting arguments. But, I guess, that is all some people can do.
Well seeing how this thread is about firing Berhalter, who as of January 1, 2023 is NO LONGER an employee of US Soccer...... This is entire thread has long since passed it's usefulness and relevance.
I wasn't happy with Berhalter getting hired but, after these last two seasons of our players in Europe under-performing, I must say he overachieved in Qatar.
Oh oh. You can’t say that. No matter how limited you are gonna hurt their feelings. You can never hurt their feelings. They have to feel good about being ill equipped.
The reason we have MLS players in the roster is because there's a massive drop off in quality from our top 13 or so players to the rest. And ya, those top 13 or so play in Europe as that's where the money and higher levels are. But after that it's MLS players vs various 2nd tier Euro league players to fill out the back half of the roster. And naturally there's gonna be MLS plays included. There will also always be up and coming MLS players who eventually move to Europe who will be in the NT when in MLS. Our player pool just isn't as deep as some think. We aren't loaded with waves on top 4 league players. Even Argentina which won the damn WC called in domestic players and an MLS player. When/if we have 23 Puli/McKennie/Adams/Musah/Reyna level players we are unlikely to have MLS players in the team, or players in various 2nd tier Euro leagues. Until then....
Of course if we have 23 players of that level, MLS will look much different than it does now. Perhaps some of those players will be competing in a much better MLS.