Post-match: The Post Presidency :: Trump Faces The Music Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    I'd rather HalleBerry! :whistling:
     
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  2. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Still nowhere near as bad as Hillary's email server :coffee:
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    After 7.5 freaking years we have our indictment my friend

    It's been real!
     
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  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
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    Get 'em up against the wall (against the wall)
     
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  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
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    Belgium
    I am always sketchy in criminal trials of translating too much of what we've heard into 'they definitely have killer evidence". But this case always seemed so open and shut. He was caught red handed with the stuff. He tried not to give it back. That is two crimes right there.

    He also appears to have left unauthorised people access it, which escalates into much worse territory

    Obviously anyone else would be looking at decades in prison
     
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  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    #7181 The Jitty Slitter, Jun 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2023
    I suggest it would useful for an actual big indictment and eventual criminal trial to start a new thread

    Especially I'd request in post 1 of the thread there is an index of good follows, podcasts, substackers for the trial so we can refer to them and people can find them without us having to link to them everytime. Also a link to the indictment and anything else - as these resources are useful.

    Just off the top of my head, the following are really good on Trump crimes

    Preet Bharara - former US Attorney for SDNY, knows procedure/strategy etc like the back of his hand
    Ken White - very high quality legal analysis
    Lawfare - ditto if you really like to get in the weeds
    Marcy Wheeler - independent journalist with encyclopaedic knowledge of the cases
    Andrew Weissman - ex Mueller team line prosecutor who is often on TV
    Just Security
    Opening Arguments
    Meiselas / Legal AF (these guys are lawyers but this is more YES BOI! type coverage)
    Strict Scrutiny / Leah Litman

    Resistance Twitter. Yes if Mueller She Wrote is your bag, i do think she does a reasonable job of reporting what is going on in an accessible way

    Who have i missed? If you post more, I will edit this post with the names, then start a new thread
     
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  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    So far we think 7 crimes are charged. Note - there may be more counts than this. e.g the hoarding of stolen documents is over 100 docs but they likely will only charge some of them

    Trump has not seen the indictment yet, but Jim Trusty says that based on the summons, there are seven crimes charged:
    • 18 USC 793(e): hoarding (and possibly disseminating) stolen classified documents
    • 18 USC 1512(k): conspiracy to obstruct justice
    • 18 USC 1512(b)(2)(a): inducing someone to withhold testimony (possibly asking Nauta to withhold testimony, or setting Evan Corcoran up to make incorrect statements)
    • 18 USC 1512(c)(1): concealing a document (possibly altering surveillance video)
    • 18 USC 1519: concealing a document (probably for hiding docs from Evan Corcoran)
    • 18 USC 1001(a)(1): concealing a material fact (possibly false statements to NARA and DOJ)
    • 18 USC 1001(a)(2): false statement

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/06/...inally-believe-this-is-an-espionage-act-case/
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Any decent lawyer is always loathe to speak without reading the actual thing being cited (the indictment) but this feels bigger and more expansive than what i was expecting ...

    The obstruction/conspiracy charges really set out a theory that trump didn't just steal the stuff - he was intentionally trying to keep stolen war plans etc

    I think it is not so much the job of Jack Smith to say why he did that, but simply that such conduct is alarming
     
  9. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
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    Worth noting that Mueller found ample evidence of obstruction, but because of the DOJ rule that you can't indict a sitting President, that charge was not made.
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
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    Agreed. Mueller gave Barr a gift wrapped case for DOJ to drop once Trump left office.
     
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  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
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    I'm curious about Meadows. For such a Trumpy sycophant to turn coats, Jack must really have the goods.
     
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  12. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Thread title:
    DJT: Putting the dic in indictment
     
  13. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
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    Good article from Josh Marshall at Talkingpointsmemo.com


    At the risk of stating the obvious, when we put this together with what we are seeing unfold in the electoral realm, we should be expecting 2024 to bring us an extremely uncommon presidential rematch (1956 was the last time) and a totally unprecedented campaign in which the major nominee of one party is running under federal indictment and possibly on trial. This doesn’t include the active indictments and trial in New York State or the potential one in Georgia, which still seems quite likely.

    To answer your question, no: I don’t think any of these charges change the equation in terms of Trump’s likelihood to be the Republican nominee. The facts revealed in the indictments would have to be dramatically more damning than the ones we know. Let’s be honest, he stole a bunch of classified documents after launching a failed coup.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/newsletter/vol-2-no-17-the-target-letter-is-trump-toast
     
  14. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    When's the Georgia indictment dropping? Have the mf'er on tape asking election officials to "find him" votes. That one should've dropped a year ago.
     
  15. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    August.
     
  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
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    There's a rule in business and working in nonprofits about never making a suggestion if you're not willing to be the one to carry it through.

    Just saying.
     
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  17. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
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    The GQP is always creating fake stories about Socialists running the country. Trump should have to run for the presidency from jail like a real Socialist did, Eugene Debs.
     
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  18. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    I agree that the facts laid out in indictments probably won't reduce Trump's support much among GOP voters.

    I think that actual trial processes could generate some fatigue among non-diehards, though - depending on what kind of witness testimony we get.
     
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  19. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
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    Maybe this would turn his supporters towards supporting some gun control.




































    Hah.
    With humor like that I'm going to keep my day job.
     
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  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
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    DC United
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    The Bragg indictment helped him. This one won’t.

    Progress?
     
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  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
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    Colombia
    Moron mob boss:

     
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  22. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
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    Yeah, apologies if it's already been discussed or the video even posted above, but former AG "I ran interference for years" Barr said in a recent interview that this document stuff is a mess of Cheeto's own making, noting he was given a couple of opportunities to comply/return but wouldn't do it.
     
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  23. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    It’ll be interesting to see who does show up.

    It’s really nice of them to hold the “show” in Florida and have a judge who was picked by Trump.

    This is going to be interesting and I don’t mean in a good way.
     
  24. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    #7200 usscouse, Jun 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2023
    This is what it’ll all come down to.

    Will they or Trumps judge have the nerve.

    On Friday, ABC News reported that proceedings in the classified documents case against former President Donald Trump for appear to have been initially assigned to Aileen Cannon — the same Trump-appointed judge who tried to block the FBI from reviewing documents seized from Mar-a-Lago, only to be smacked down by the Court of Appeals.
     

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