General Football Thread - Any other business

Discussion in 'England' started by Marcho Gamgee, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Nobody knows. He hasn’t even been charged yet and it normally takes many months now a days for a trial after charge.
     
  2. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Mason Greenwood has now been charged.
     
  3. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  5. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Assuming that nobody minds sport-adjacent comments in this thread, has anyone got an opinion on Lineker vs Davie? I guess I'm particularly interested to know what people think who disagree with Lineker about immigration policy. Still think he should be allowed to state his opinion or should he have kept it to himself?
     
  6. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    I don’t think it’s a big deal but things like this will always arise because of the licence fee. I’m not sure how most people watch highlights nowadays but I usually watch them on YouTube. I actually watched MOTD for the first time in years and would personally prefer it like it was last night.
     
  7. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    I think it's galling for a lot of people to essentially be forced to pay to platform someone who is going to use that platform in part to push messages they find abhorrent, especially given the kind of money that Lineker is inexplicably on. Though that is a problem throughout the BBC of late I think, the cosmopolitan post modern values they take as the norm are completely alien to large sections of the public.

    It was interesting as well to see how radically Ian Wrights thoughts this kind of issue seem to have changed between Le Tissier being sacked and Lineker being asked to tone it down.
     
    ChristianSur repped this.
  8. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    #283 AJ123, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
    Linekar is just a lightening rod for the Tory policy of igniting populist culture wars. They've screwed the everything up so badly that it's the only play they have left. The policy criticised by Linekar is designed to fail. It will get bogged down in legal challenges and the rhetoric will be 'Labour and lefty lawyers are working against the country etc etc' by means of red meat to potential voters.

    While this is kicking off it transpires that the Tories are working to open up the country to more immigration. The big lie at the heart of this is that The Tories actually want to reduce immigration. The opposite is true because they can't. The birth rate in the UK has fallen below replacement level whilst the largest generational demographic cohort in the country, known as the baby boomers, are now retiring or retired, whilst also living longer with more and more comorbidities that cost a lot to treat. All this means that we need more and more tax revenues to fund the spiralling cost of medical and social care. If your birth rate is below replacement then one way to achieve this is through immigration. There is of course another method that could at least reduce the need for high levels of immigration to pay for all this. That is to tax the rich and get back some of the hundred of billions that disappear into offshore funds every year. The modus operandi of the Tory party is to engineer ways to make sure those billions make that journey, however. 70 years ago the man credited most with the founding of the NHS, Aneurin Bevan, said what is the Tory party but organised spivery - the same remains today.

    Then you have the fact that the Tory party is literally dying. The historically common trend of voters becoming more conservative as they age is no longer playing out. Mrs Thatcher once said that the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money. The problem with Thatcherism is that you eventually run out of homeowners. NIMBYism and the FPTP MP system has thwarted any plans of remedying this defining issue at the heart of the future of the Tory party. What we're seeing now is creeping authoritarianism as the reaction to those irresolvable issues. John Crace says that when the electoral commission make their impending changes to the boundaries Labour would need an significant point lead in the polls just to reflect them securing a small majority!

    Our democracy is weakening piece by piece so the Tories will be delighted that such a meaningless story is dominating the news.
     
    ChristianSur repped this.
  9. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    It's certainly true that the Tories don't want to reduce immigration, they are THE party of mass migration, but this is more about the systemic ethnocidal tendencies of global capitalism than an inability on their part to change things. The Tory party is not dying and won't die unless there is a revolt on the right. They are far more liberal than their base, and will happily follow (or even undercut) the left on social issues because they don't truly have a conservative bone in their bodies.
     
  10. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    #285 AJ123, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
    The Tory party is dying, all the polls show as such. I'd estimate that it's a combination of their failure to economically franchise those younger demographic cohorts, coupled with their inability to control political narrative in the age of digital media and information dissemination. This is why they need to slowly turn on the taps of authoritarianism which is leading to democratic decay in the UK.

    I think that I come from a fundamentally different ideological position to you. It seems that you perceive that some how an ethnostate could be achieved. Whilst in theory I think that could lead to an easier ride regarding political and social relations I don't think it's achievable. It's more of a naïve fantasy. Therefore we need to deal with the hand that's been dealt by the tides of history and demography. Personally I don't see it as a negative or positive thing, rather something that is a reality and needs to be dealt with in order to produce optimum outcomes regarding the stability of society.

    What is your prescription to solve the issues that I've highlighted?
     
  11. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    The Tories trounced the opposition at the last election. Them falling behind in the polls is completely normal given the calamitous few years in office they've just had.

    Culture is downstream of law, of power. We have a permissive liberal society because we've been made to. It didn't happen organically, public opinion is mostly lead by policy, not the other way around. The problem is that of late the frog has been boiled that little bit too quickly.

    In terms of democratic decay, there's very little democracy to decay. The only outbreak of democracy we see is when a referendum is staged, and even then when the regime doesn't get the answer it wants it'll use every trick in the book to ignore it.

    Fundamentally the right and the left needs to get wise to the fact that both Labour and the Tories have been captured by global capital. You won't get any genuine left wing economic policies voting Labour and you won't get any genuine right wing social policies voting Tory.

    If we can get that though people's skulls, and force a referendum somehow on proportional representation, maybe we could one day have a scenario where populists of the left and right start to tax the rich and also reverse the effects of the sexual revolution, then you wouldn't need mass migration to begin with. Yeah maybe it will harm growth, but a system based on perpetual growth from finite land and resources had to end one way or another anyway.
     
  12. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    When I say the Tory party is dying, I mean literally. They are voted in by predominately older people. There used to be a observable conservative drift where they'd pick up voters once they hit the 35-40 age bracket but studies are now finding that this no longer happening. Obviously this is a generational dynamic so it won't be observable for another 10 years probably. I think this is why the Tories are slowly rolling back on democratic freedoms.

    You are right that they trounced the last election and they did that with only 26% of people eligible to vote in this country going into the polling booth and consenting to their election. That in and of itself shows how weak our democracy is when it returns an 80 seat majority. I don't think that this weakness somehow justifies a further weakening or that we shouldn't care or be worried about it. Maybe you are apathetic about it because you see the Tories as the lesser of two evils?

    I agree with you on the global capitol point but I don't think there's a way out of that so long as a country needs to borrow from global bond markets, which we do. We saw that with the Liz Truss budget. The same thing used to happen in the 1970s when Labour were in power, when they announced a budget it was common for a run on the pound which further weakened the economy. Politicians are not honest with the electorate about how much power the country actually has in the face of global markets. This is why populism is dangerous because its proponents refuse to acknowledge these confinements. The BIG danger with the populist uprising in the UK since 2016 is that we enter a period of overall political decay. We could end up like Argentina who went from being the richest country in the world at the turn of the 20th century to becoming a perennial economic and political basket case. Although it appears that you'd be happy with this eventuality so long as certain cultural aspects were realised.

    You are right that there is no true representation of the politcal character of the country. Polls show that the country is small c socially conservative whilst wanting nationalised industries and greater redistribution of wealth etc. We find ourselves in a position now where neither of those things are politically realised. I also strongly agree that we need electoral reform. My preferred outcome for the next election would be a hung parliament with the Libs propping up Labour on the proviso of electoral reform. The Tories know that PR kills them so they will fight tooth and nail to stop that.

    Where I differ from you is that I don't think PR would result in an populist uprising. I think you may see a Le Pen type figure become prominent but I think you'd most likely see a party like Germany's CDU winning out. I also think you will always need immigration and the idea of reversing the sexual revolution is a little bit fanciful.
     
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  13. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member+

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019


    Those cultured, civilised European fans again everyone. Nobody will highlight it though. Italy is a glamorous, chic and exotic holiday destination with all its beautiful scenery and buildings so its ugly underbelly gets swept under the carpet. Despite the fact it’s one of the most backwards countries in Europe when you look at its record with corruption, fascism, racism and criminal activity(mafia).
     
  14. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I wonder if this new Saudi League could cause some surprising international retirements from countries where joining teams in Saudi will cause backlash towards those players. We see the press asking Eddie Howe about Human rights in Saudi so players would be seen as fair game as well.
     
  15. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    Sorry if I'm late to the dance on this one but, what's people's thoughts on ange going to spurs?
    Up until today, I wouldn't have even given the guy the time of day because it's impossible not to win trophies at celtic. The Scottish league is so terrible, it's not even worth looking at.
    I'm trying to judge him on his previous jobs and not be a big headed Englishman who looks down on him because he's coming from Scotland.

    Will he be a success at spurs or will he have his p45 by Christmas?
     
  16. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  17. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    Pretty skeptical about him. Certainly did a great job domestically, but his record in Europe with Celtic was rubbish. Certainly Spurs aren't going to have more resources than the rest of the league so his inability to to prepare his dominant domestic side to be competent in more competitive football stands out.
     
  18. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The Dutch are not having much luck with the Nations League . Depay and now De Ligt missing it due to injury.
     
  19. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Scotland seem to be putting together a decent team. No world beaters but definitely a solid side. They're way above wales now
     
  20. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    My random comment of the day.

    So I've just been looking at some other national team forums on here and the Germany forum seems to very angry that Carlo Ancelotti is probably going to manager Brazil. Their logic is that hes not Brazilian and there for shouldn't be aloud to manager them. What I find quite funny is that most of the posters are clearly plastic Germans ( probably Americans).
     
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  21. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah pretty much that and must say I’ve stopped reading their forums due to the constant crap talk about other Nations especially by certain posters.
     
  22. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Germany lost again - at home - to Colombia. Will Flick make it to the Euros.
     
  23. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    A penny for Musala's thoughts.
     
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  24. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Scotland looking a really good outfit right now. I think they will make it out of their first group next year depending on who's with them
     
  25. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member+

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Yeah they’re definitely going to be there that’s for sure. I just hope we can give them a good beating in September to burst their bubble. Even a draw is a win to them. It’s their cup final after all.
     
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