2023 Gold Cup Refereeing [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 7, 2023.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    List available here: https://www.concacaf.com/gold-cup/article/2023-concacaf-gold-cup-match-officials/

    Elfath is a notable omission. The fact that Parker and Atkins still go make me think it's an availability or injury issue.

    Vazquez as, in theory, his replacement is interesting. Is Vazquez #3 from the USA right now then?

    If you look at the referee list, it is very tight and pretty much all the names you would except (bar Vazquez for Elfath).
     
  2. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I’m surprised to see Walter Lopez ahead of his brother Bryan (who is a Support Referee).
     
  3. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the function of a support referee in this context?
     
  4. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    He was struggling with an injury in the game on Week 14, was 4th official for Week 15, and hasn't been in the assignments at all for Week 16, Week 17, and the just-posted Week 18. Might be related to that apparent injury in week 14, or just unavailable during this time period.
     
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  5. Twotone Jones

    Twotone Jones Member

    United States
    Apr 12, 2023
    5 ARs from the USA and only 2 Rs. So one AR doesn't fit. Contrary, 3 Rs from MEX to go with 6 ARs. That's an even number. Does that mean Nesbit is attached to Barton, as she was in the World Cup? Or maybe she's attached to Fischer, who only has 1 Canadian AR to go with him?

    Also noticing there's not the random Caribbean referee included in the main group. It seems with Gold Cup that there's always someone from a small country like Belize, Trinidad, or Haiti that makes the list.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s not. I’ve been told it’s simply a question of availability.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Recent Gold Cups have demonstrated that no one is really attached. In fact, for awhile, duos were more or less assigned and then paired up.

    Maybe that’s evolving with Rizzoli. The smaller referee list is a good first step. So to the extent Nesbitt is tied to someone, it could be Fischer (as Barton’s actual crew is there). But I bet there will be variation.

    Who gets Parker-Atkins? Does Vazquez just fill in there and Richardson-Brown is the Villarreal crew?
     
  8. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Surprisingly few number of referees selected IMO, more reminiscent of a EURO, than the normally rather bloated list for a Gold Cup. Perhaps one or two support referees will be promoted to handle a match? (you can compare to previous editions here).
     
  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m sure that availability is the real reason. However, given Elfath did have that injury issue, I’m sure no one is overly upset that he has the availability issue. It’s not like he’s an unknown commodity.

    This also gives a different US referee a shot in the event. I was a bit surprised to see Vazquez get the nod. For me, even though they are newer FIFAs, I’d have gone with Dickerson or Rivas. I get they are first year FIFAs, but I’d trust either more in my opinion.
     
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  10. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I'm wondering where Saghafi fits into this picture. He seemed to be on the path towards a bigger role in Concacaf for a while. I wonder if he's fallen behind Vasquez or if they're just to giving Vasquez a look.
     
  11. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    It seems that CONCACAF have now aborted that principle:

    “In this edition of the Gold Cup, the referee will have their trios to provide more consistency as a team to then have top performances throughout the tournament. Each match will be prepared with a pre-match tactical briefing, and immediately after the game there will be an evaluation and a post-match analysis with the Gold Cup referees committee.

    “After every matchday, there will be a general debriefing with all the referees in order to be aligned and consistent in the evaluation of the different situations that occurred during the matches. We will also prepare statistics and videos to then have a general line of interpretation of the entire delegation’s performance and a personal evaluation of the referee trio,” concluded Rizzoli.

    The numbers should also support this, 13 refs with 26 assistants.
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Vazquez should slide in for Elfath and Nesbitt with Fischer, right? Seems to mean Fischer is almost guaranteed to work a Mexico match.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gold Cup Matchday 1
    United States : Jamaica - RAMOS (MEX)
    Trinidad & Tobago : St. Kitts - MARTINEZ (HON)
    Haiti : Qatar - PARCHMENT (JAM)
    Mexico : Honduras - ESCOBAR (GUA)
    El Salvador : Martinique - ESCOBEDO (MEX)
    Costa Rica : Panama - FISCHER (CAN)
    Canada : Guadeloupe - VAZQUEZ (USA)
    Guatemala : Cuba - NATION (JAM)

    Full assignments here: https://www.concacaf.com/gold-cup/article/2023-gold-cup-referee-appointments-matches-10-17/

    Nothing really stands out. Ramos on the "big" US match/opener seems sensible. Fischer gets what could be a fun/tough game. The Parchment one might be the most interesting from a referee perspective; I do not expect him to do well there.

    With 14 referees and 6 matches per matchday, you can start to guess at who might work where on MD2 (though understanding 2 referees will simply wait to MD3). Jamaica v Trinidad seems like it could be a fight for second place in Group A, so I could see Barton land there. And Qatar v Honduras could be the big one for Group B, so maybe Villarreal? I could also see one of the remaining Mexicans on Guatemala v Canada. But nothing is super clear, obviously.
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of items to note on the MD1 assignments.
    • Vazquez gets Parker and Atkins. Makes sense to have the World Cup ARs supporting the less experienced center in an event like this with Elfath not working.
    • Nesbitt is with Fischer. Given what CONCACAF said about trios, looks like she is going to stick with Drew for this tournament.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, the trios are set barring injury or performance issues. Consider it a Rizzoli move (along with not bringing two dozen referees).

    Vazquez has essentially slid into Elfath's slot, based on availability. I suppose that means Dickerson is the one who benefitted the most because, otherwise, feel like Vazquez is reserve and Dickerson isn't there.

    Other noteworthy trio details:

    - Zeegelaar of Suriname, who is the AR that went to WC22 with Barton, slides in as AR1 for Nation
    - Parchment gets Wales (TTO) as AR2, so despite having two Jamaican ARs and two Jamaican referees, there is no all-Jamaican crew
    - Lopez gets a tri-nation grouping with Feliz (DOM) and Corrales (NCA); kind of feel like he's Referee #13 on this list
    - Worth noting that Wales and Mora (CRC) were ARs for Escobar in Qatar; they are with Parchment and Calderon, respectively here

    Given Trindad & Tobago and Jamaica are in the same group, there's no real additional conflict for assigning created there. I think the only issue is that Fischer can't see the US and, I presume, can't do other Group A games. So his second assignment, if he gets one in the group, is probably in Group B (Mexico v Qatar?).
     
  16. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    The officials shirts look as if they have been worn and washed for 10 years at a minimum.
     
  17. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pink would be better. :whistling::D

    (I'm ducking as I leave . . .)
     
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  18. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Refs uniforms looking like an OSI green after being used twice
     
  19. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    I'll never understand why referees are scared to give easy 1st caution DR. Clearly used hands to block the Turner punt.. nada.
     
  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    it can’t be DR on a punt . . .or are you making different points. The GK got a quick DR caution, but more blatant delays on restarts by field players didn’t. And re GKs, I’d really like to have IFAB say that messing with a GK is a caution. USSF had it as a form of USB in the old ATR, and I agree. It’s a cynical act that shouldn’t be part of the game. When the worst consequence is an IFK for the GK, why not mess with him?
     
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  21. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Yep. Sorry. Not DR but you got my point.
     
  22. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't emphasize this enough, but you should really air dry your uniform shirts.
     
  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The problem is for refs now is, caution for what? While USSF used to teach it was USB, that isn’t called out in the Laws, and with the excessive adherence to the list in today game, that means the refs need a hook for the caution. It certainly wasn’t reckless. The other hook would be SPA, but with the shot so tight, hard to tell if there was any promising attack—which a bit tough if the GK still has the ball. That leaves generic USB without a specific bullet, and there doesn’t seem to be an expectation in the game today to give them without a specific bullet. So, unfortunately, it appears to me that the powers that be don’t expect that to be a caution. I think that is very unfortunate for the Game. GK’s releasing the ball quickly is much better for entertainment and competition than GKs being slowed down, which slows down play. But it just doesn’t seem to be something the powers that be care about, as it is quite easily solved. (Except that—gasp—it would means some extra cards in the short term, which could—the horror!—result in some 2CT send offs.)
     
  24. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very good PK handball spotted by Parchment in real time. 44’

    Qatari player initially put his arms behind his back but then pushed his right arm out and away from his body.

    Bad commentary, though, as usual around the LOTG and VAR.

    Jones wanted a YC for a “handball in the box,” even though it was a cross and not a shot.

    And Dellacamera speculated VAR should have intervened because if a YC had been given it would have been a second YC and a red.

    Both commentators clueless.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  25. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no call on a Qatari challenge in 55' - two footed tackle that flattens a Haitian player; no whistle other than to recognize the injury.

    Looked bad on the first viewing and worse on the replay.
     

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