GOP Failure Watch Part VI (Majority in House Edition) The Insurrection Caucus Sh*tshow.

You didn’t convert from Israelite shekels to Israeli shekels.

!!!!!!!!

Y’all need to click the link. I was sure it was going to be a complete nobody, but he’s in a lot of things. I recognized his face immediately.

So that explains William Jennings Bryan’s extreme religiosity.

 

You're actually simply repeating accusations made in bad faith. That is what you are doing. First, tell us what you think 6 year olds are told when receiving gender affirming care, what 11 years olds are told when receiving gender affirming care, etc. If you can't explain, then your ignorance demonstrates why you are acting in bad faith.

And ******** you for implying that LGBT+ people are acting in bad faith and are bad or stupid people doing bad or stupid things. You Christians are terrorizing us and deliberately and intentionally harming us because of your childish beliefs. Grow up!

Next, if you want laws that stop bad or stupid people from doing bad or stupid things, you'd be going after the Christians who are persecuting others out of spite - nothing more, nothing less. But instead, you get pissed off because we use the term "Christian" for people who say they are Christian, attend Christian religious services, read Christian scripture, use Christian beliefs to inspire their behavior, and then use Christian beliefs to justify what they do to other people. Apparently, according to you it is totally wrong for us to call such people Christians! I've been thinking today how people like you would have objected to people saying it was Nazis who tried to exterminate Jews because not every Nazi thought that was ok to do so. Hey, just because they identified as Nazis, acted on Nazi propaganda, justified their actions through Nazi beliefs,etc., it doesn't mean you should call them Nazis given not every single Nazi thought that way! I mean, how unfair is that to the Nazis who didn't think it was ok to murder people?

Because you do not seem to post with honest intent. How can we treat you as a sincere person when you deliberately, intentionally and repeatedly refuse to act in good faith?

What is the definition of a Christian in your opinion? You demand that we use your definition but you won't tell us what it is! You play the victim card more than anyone else here but you refuse, absolutely refuse, to do anything that would allow us to engage you in an intelligent way. You want to be the persecuted Christian despite the fact that you constantly and invariably side with those who persecute the LGBT+ community. You do not act in good faith here.

Yeah, I got it - it wasn't difficult. My response would be to ask how an omnipresent God could move over the surface of the waters. Omnipresence and movement don't work well together.

According to you.

Yet there are millions and millions of self-identified Christians who don't see it that way. Why should we believe you and not them? Please, explain!

Why should we assume you are right and they are wrong?

It's a very basic question that deserves an intelligent response, but one that you constantly refuse to provide and then you get upset when we don't base our comments on your understandings.

You're a typical Christian. You demand we accept what you say with no supporting evidence whatsoever. But you demand that we defend and justify everything we say and take offense if we use the term Christian in ways you don't approve, even though you refuse to tell us how you define it.

 

Actually, the links I looked at did distinguish between the ancient and the modern and converted between them. But I chose to use US dollars given those are more meaningful to people here.

But thanks for not providing any references whatsoever that would allow me to double check in case I made a mistake, or to help others better understand what the actual value is. Very helpful of you! As always.

 

Dude, it was a joke

 

@Sounders78 Honest question for you: why the focus on "Christianity" and "Christians" writ large? There are many LGBT friendly churches. I read your takes and think you paint with a very broad brush but also focus on one religion. Why not also go after Judaism (Leviticus is part of the Pentateuch), Islam (Surah 26), Buddhism (the concept of "sexual misconduct"), etc? Your dislike of Christians seems tied to your own personal experience (which is understandable!), and White Christians hold most positions of power in the US, so from an anti-authority aspect I get it too. I'm trying to gauge where your antipathy comes from so that as a semi-practicing Catholic I can engage in the conversation as a person who agrees with most of what you say but not on this, respectfully.

I read what you said about Aquinas earlier, and yeah there is some bullshit stuff (as you would expect from something that old) but also things like the idea that an unjust law should be disobeyed and a lot of other good stuff too (the concept of a just war is very apropos right now despite what a certain globally south oriented poster would say). Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

That would be Heaven/Hell. Then, if you're Roman Catholic, you've got Purgatory, which is like Serie B, Ligue 2, or the English Championship!

 

Because they are the ones in the USA attacking LGBT+ people, using their religion to justify it.

How is that not obvious? In the USA it's not atheists who are trying to strip gays of their right to exist, it's Christians. It's not Jews, it's Christians. It's not Muslims, it's Christians. It's not Buddhists, it's Christians. Christians are the problem. Not every single Christian, but the common denominator is Christianity. There is no other common denominator I am aware of other than Christianity.

Why do you think it is wrong for me to call them out on it, given Christians are explicitly and deliberately the ones attacking us?

Yes, I've attended them and I appreciate them.

I've stated multiple times in these threads of a heterosexual Christian friend who actively works for inclusion. She is featured in the documentary 1946 that is currently making its rounds in film festivals and has written books and articles on the need for inclusion. She doesn't object when people call out Christians, even though she identifies as an evangelical Christian. In fact, she calls them out using the same terms and wording that I do - and she's a church-going evangelical Christian.

You see, superdave tries to play it both ways - every time a new issue comes up, he immediately sides with the anti-LGBT crowd while at the same time being upset that he gets lumped in with the Christian crowd because I don't specify which type of Christian I'm referring to, even though he agrees with those Christians until the facts are explained to him.

The point is Christians in America persecute LGBT+ people. Stop asking us why we get angry at Christians. Ask Christians why they persecute us and hold them accountable for it, instead of asking us to justify why we get upset about it. I mean seriously, do you see how ridiculous your comment is? If you see someone getting beaten to a pulp, do you ask the person beaten why they are upset at the person who beat them up? Don't you think your questions should be directed at the person who is relentlessly beating them up? Stop holding the victims accountable and start going after the abusers.

It doesn't mean every Christian does it, just like not every Nazi wanted to kill Jews. But when they identify as Christian, use Christian beliefs, attend Christian churches, justify their actions with their Christian scriptures, have the support of their Christian leadership, etc., why is it wrong to call them Christian when that is their explicit justification? It always strikes me how Christians get more upset about being lumped in with the other Christians than they get with the other Christians abusing people. That speaks volumes.

Well, just as soon as Jews or Muslims in America start working to pass laws that actively promote discrimination against LGBT+ I will. I have no problem doing so and am well equipped to do so. But you see, they're not very vocal about using the Torah (or Koran) in getting laws passed that restrict our freedoms in the USA. It's Christians that are doing that. It doesn't really make sense to go after people who aren't behaving badly if they're not the ones actively working to promote bigotry against us, don't you think?

Let me ask you this, are you asking the Christians in your life why they are actively persecuting LGBT+ people or supporting institutions that do, and holding them accountable for it? I hope so because that would be the honorable thing to do.

You being a semi-practicing Catholic - I have no issue with you or your beliefs - you do you, but don't you dare start imposing those beliefs on me and then get upset if I counter them. Christians too often think mission-work is one way - they get to proselytize and others listen. I mean, when was the last time you heard a church sermon where dissenting points of views were given equal time during a service? I'm just saying, and I tell missionaries who come to my door this, if you get to talk to me about your beliefs for 30 minutes, then I get to do the same for 30 minutes, including responding with science as to why what you said is factually wrong. Deal?

The minute you start saying that your beliefs dictate that I should be persecuted, as your church actively and repeatedly does, then I have an issue with you and your beliefs. I will make it clear your beliefs are childish, ridiculous, foolish and very harmful. At the same time, because you align and identify with that church, it is fair game to hold you accountable for the actions of your church in persecuting gay people while they protect people who ******** children. If you align yourself with pedophiles who persecute gays, then you are fair game because you support pedophiles who deliberately harm other people. Ask yourself why you identify with an institution that protects pedophiles? How is that morally responsible on your part? It's not.

If you are willing to identify with them knowing full well they protect people who ******** children, then you had better not ever criticize people like me who do not harm others through our attractions. Judge not, lest you be judged. Don't hold it against me if I listen to what Jesus taught and your religious leaders don't.

The Catholic Church is a grossly immoral institution that deliberately and intentionally persecutes innocent people contrary to what Jesus taught. They have a history of murdering people. That you choose to associate with them is your business, but don't expect me to ignore your association with them when they come after me - as they currently do.

If you choose to align yourself with a group that wants to persecute me, you will not be treated as an innocent bystander. Your association with them helps empower them. If you give money to them, then you are financially supporting an organization that uses your money to persecute other people while protecting pedophiles. I don't see how that is morally defensible. And my calling it out does not make you a victim.

Yes, and gay people make positive contributions but the Catholic church was more than happy to murder us for being gay. Why should I extend more grace to the Catholic Church than the Catholic Church extends to me, particularly when the church basically positions itself to be the fountain of God's grace?

Instead of holding LGBT+ people accountable for our views on the church, hold the church accountable for its actions against us. In other words, stop blaming the victims.

I hope this gives you a better idea of why I take the stance I do against an institution that actively persecutes and harms people for religious reasons.

 

I'm an Evangelical. I like to think that I'm mostly free of bigotry. I'm not currently homophobic, though I was a very homophobic child.

 

Then you should fully understand that evangelicals are at the front and center of anti-gay persecution in this country, contrary to what Jesus taught.

On a side note, are you aware there are two different and contradictory flood stories edited together in Genesis 6-9? You can see them for yourself if you separate out the verses that use "God" (Elohim) from the verses that use "LORD" (YHWH). I bet that never gets taught in your church!


edit: a simple response to your earlier question is to rephrase your question as: "why are you so upset with us just because we keep beating you to a pulp?" The answer is in the question.

 

I personally believe that fundamentalists are more homophobic than evangelicals. One of the founders of my association of churches was gay. I have a more liberal view of Genesis than many in my church.

 

He looks like a stunt double for the MyPillow guy

 

I was raised Catholic. Was an altar boy, the whole 9 yards. I left the church for obvious reasons long ago. At best, it is a massive bureaucracy that will do anything -- ANYTHING -- to protect its "brand." To include systematically enabling massive church-wide pedophilia.

But it will never be "at best." It is, and will continue to be, far worse. The only reason people stay in the church is because of the massive guilt trip they lay on everyone. I argued with a Catholic friend a while back about this very point, and he said essentially I was going to burn in hell for my beliefs.

I assured him if that was the case I would have a lot of company -- including him.

 

Here's the test I use - does your church preach against the inherent dignity, humanity, image of God-liness and rights of LGBT+ people? If they don't, good on them. If they do, then they contradict what Jesus taught and should be vociferously condemned.

 

I have not personally heard that in the sermons that I've attended. Do they have a perfect record? No. Bob Dylan once was a member, though he later returned to Judaism.

 

That's when 4 guys do the recommended review and then send you down.

 

Yes, and it is against it. Matthew 20:16 says the first shall be last and the last shall be first, clearly indicating rating within a single list with expected large movements between positions.

 

Does that mean Chelsea moves up 3 spots or down 3?

 

Except Christianity is absolutely not the common denominator. There are plenty of Christian churches that have led the fight for gender equity. There are plenty of Christian churches that fly trans flags. There are plenty of Christian churches doing the heavy lifting of persuasion and empathy and compassion.

The common denominator is reactionary conservatism.

 

They are the ones attributing it to Christianity and Christianity has a very long and sustained history of exactly that. It is up to other Christians to fight that battle, not me.

 

I bought silver @ $50 per oz. Howzit doin?

 

“The meek shall inherit the earth” sounds favorable to it.