Brenden Aaronson

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    The thing I first noticed about Aaronson at Phillly is that he had trouble when the other team pressed him or just compressed his space. I don't think it was skills based but rather the same issue that most of our guys have....vision (as you note 'head up').

    With more experience, that may improve and based upon the fact that has already surpassed the "consensus" hopes for him of a couple of years ago, I wouldn't bet against him improving in that and other areas. The only question in my mind is how much? He went from MLS, roughly horizontally to Austrian B1 to EPL in a pretty short time period. I'm willing to give him a bit more time.
     
  2. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    It is interesting how we can watch the same player and see different things. I don’t see him as all that good with the ball in traffic at all, particularly his quick decision making. I always assumed he was playing there as a disruptor. I take that he can advance through space when he isn’t pressured or gets away from pressure. But he loses the ball too much in traffic, and doesn’t make progressive passes at a PL level. Better on the wing IMO.
     
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  3. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    It seems that a lot of people tend to agree with you that he isn't particularly good in traffic. The difference in opinion that I am getting is the cause. Skills? Vision? Combination? I tend to think his skills at leasst fine and probably pretty good but his difficulties with vision/decision making lead to him a) not seeing the pass and as a result b) holding it too long which leads to a loss of possession through a forced pass or a direct turnover.

    A good player from our recent past to compare would be Donovan. As good as Donovan was, i don't think his skills were ever his best asset. I believe there are quite a few of our players now that exceed his skills, or at the very least match them. He could play anywhere due to his vision. Without that vision, our current players are more limited.

    I'm not 100% sure how much of vision is an a inherent skill but I believe it can be improved with experience as players understand the patterns of play and are better able to anticipate defensive patterns and how to defeat them.
     
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  4. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Me as well, the main issue to me is he's tiny and easy to be little brother'd as they say. Touch isn't a concern at all to me. He's actually a plus there. As another said, he doesn't see the ball enough, and he isn't big enough to be effective centrally, but he can be effective on the wings. He doesn't add a ton of counting stats so you need to dig to find how he actually helps, but he does. There is a real concerted effort to blame American's for the team failing. It's really odd. The only thing that had anything to do with relegation related to the Americans involved was Tyler Adams injury. Otherwise the bulk of the problems connect to poor finishing, terrible defenders and a god awful keeper, none of whom were Americans.

    I hate the EPL and their (generalizing) over abundance of loud, ----, fans is a big reason, along with their lazy, idiotic media.
     
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  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Based on their exceptionally complex "American's suck" metric. The same one that shot out a "4-0" England win, when dug into the metric to determine England's likely fate in that USA-England group stage match after Thanksgiving.
     
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  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think vision is something you're mostly born with but not looking up while dribbling can mask that ability. So if a player does that they can work on it and reveal how good their vision is - or isn't.
     
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  7. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Vision and decision making. I think Davies said that nobody he played with more consistently made the right attacking decision. Pulisic having a bit better touch and better dribbling tricks is nice but if he kept driving into triple teams instead of laying it off to the open guy it doesn’t matter.
     
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  8. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I would make a distinction between vision and movement with the ball and without it. Aaronson is excellent without the ball. He makes aggressive runs that challenge the defense. With the ball he is below average (at the PL level).

    Gio is our best player by some margin with the ball.
     
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  9. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think I tend to agree, but I also think that vision is actually made up of at least two different talents/skills that are complementary and difficult to differentiate:

    One is hard for me to define but it is the raw ability to see people and be aware of people on the field...it consists of peripheral vision but it also is field awareness where a player can keep track of where a player is (or probably is) on the field when out of his field of vision.

    the second is something that improves with experience as the player becomes more familiar with the patterns of the game; an understanding of how individual players react and how offenses and defenses react and can be manipulated.

    Not sure if what I said makes sense. It's hard for me to put into words.
     
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  10. RedBaron

    RedBaron Member

    Sep 9, 2001
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You hit the nail on the head relative to awareness. The best players have an innate sense of where they are relative to everyone around them so that when they get the ball…or when they actively seek it out…they instinctively know what their first move should be. At Leeds Aaronson got caught way too much in possession…even beyond what would be expected given his physical stature and the nature of EPL football. I think Aaronson has excellent technical ability but he suffers some from an awareness perspective, and unfortunately, awareness isn’t really something you can teach.
     
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  11. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Good post. I kinda lump both of what you describe into the tactical awareness bucket but the first one seems to have some elements of a technical skill also. In fact, I've seen plenty of coaches run drills at the youth level that try to hammer home the head on a swivel spatial awareness type stuff. No doubt there is an innate intuitive component involved though.

    Seems to me that the US player has lacked both of the attributes that you describe at the highest levels. Stuff like executing a half tun that will spring a counter instead of a square ball or back pass, or receiving the ball and directing into a space away from danger but also into an area of the field that will optimize the attack. The recent U20s seem to me to be closing the gap with this kinda stuff a bit when I watch them (at least until they get into the final third) so maybe that is a good sign and we are starting to catch up.
     
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  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    With regard to the generalizations about playing in compressed space refered to so much on this thread, I'd just point out that Brenden is 64 percentile in drawing fouls that lead to goals and 76 percentile in drawing fouls that lead to shots. He is 84 percentile in drawing fouls while being 83 percentile in fouls committed in spite of being 74 percentile in tackles, 96 percentile in blocks, 94 percentile in passes blocked and 74 percentile in shots blocked.

    No wonder then that
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/j...southampton-job.2103222/page-94#post-41428747
    Under Jesse Marsch, Leeds allowed their opponents to complete 75.5% percent of their passes. That would've been the lowest full-season mark in the league, just slightly below what Liverpool held their opponents to over 38 games. After Big Sam Allardyce took over, the opponent pass-completion percentage rose all the way up to 84.2%, which would have been the third-highest season-long number in the league. Unfortunately the shift in approach didn't improve the team's performance; no, it made them worse and worse and worse

    Big Sam benched Aaronson, of course, because he's a "defense first" kinda guy ;)



     
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  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    good point about the technical skills. I tend to think of them as separate but complementary. Technical skill, imo, gives more time and space….or at least increases the effective space if not the absolute space. (Does that make sense?). I guess what I am trying to say is technical skill enables working in tighter spaces and at the same time requires that the defense give more respect
     
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  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a lot of us are saying similar things and all of it connects. Messi wouldn't be able to take as much advantage of his spatial awareness skills if he wasn't such a beast on close control and looking up while dribbling. He also has the technical skill to pull off the passes that he sees in his mind. He's the prototype for what interior players should try and do. I wonder if any kids study everything about him and try and emulate him for years of practice? Like say Stevie Ray Vaughn listening to the blues greats and practicing till his nails ripped and his fingers bled. Seems Pulisic sort of did but his favorite player was Figo so Messi was later on for him.
     
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  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's pretty far out front in that statistical category, to boot. A pressure every less than 2 minutes!
     
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  17. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The kid can run hard all day, he's established that aspect of his game.
     
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  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any statistic that does not rate Patrick Bamford as the worst player in the Premier League probably needs re-examined.

    What continues to amaze - but not surprise - me about Leeds fans is how little criticism Bamford gets for being an absolutely PUTRID Premier League striker while the McKennie and Aaronson get skewered for being average to below average.

    I've long wondered why Leeds and their fans are so hated. This year gave me a good understanding of why that's the case.
     
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  19. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Leeds had gotten the same level of mediocre from striker and GK, they'd still be in the PL.
     
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  20. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    While I hate blaming everything else when or guys struggle this one is spot on IMO.

    Pretty damn blatant. Yeah, there were weakness in general, but damn keeper was bad.
    Up front. Bad. No way around it.
     
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  21. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think both can be and are true. Leeds was poor at striker and in goal, two hugely consequential positions, but they also brought in an American coach and three American players hoping they would start and improve the team and only 1 (Adams) really did. McKennie was a disappointment and did not help while Aaronson was eventually benched after very little production to show and Marsch couldn't get them over the hump as manager. They made a significant investment in an American coach and almost 30% of the lineup and the team was no better off for it. If I was a Leeds fan, I'd be bothered by all of the above. I think translating this to any sort of animosity about American players or Americans in general is foolish, but they have every right to be upset with the Americans they brought in just as they should be upset with some of their other players. I really think only Adams acquitted himself well there.
     
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  22. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brenden chipped in assists and goals about where you'd expect from a young AM on a bad team. He was 73rd in the PL for xg and xa and in the same band as Jack Harrison and Mason Mount. He was third on Leeds and would have been 3rd on West Ham or Palace. He scored one actual goal and forced an own goal that needed VAR to take off him. Being good for 2 goals and 3 assists isn't going to get you a parade but isn't terrible for a 22 year old PL rookie.
     
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  23. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think any objective USMNT fan disagrees with you. My issue has been with the double standards of expectations for European players relative to Americans.

    Ask yourself what the reaction would have been if Matt Turner, Ricardo Pepi, or Josh Sargent would have had a season like Meslier or Bamford. They might not have made it out of Leeds alive. Yet there was hardly a smattering of criticism about either of them.

    There is no question Marsch, McKennie, and Aaronson weren’t as good as they could have been. However, the abuse and vitriol each has received relative to actual performance is way over the top while continental players are getting a pass.
     
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  24. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I mean it's been said before even back in the summer that Leeds needed another LB, CB, and striker and they got none of those. They did eventually get Wober in winter. I know Meslier was awful last season too but still seemed highly thought of but this year not so much.
     
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  25. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Also on Bamford the Leeds fans responses are usually "well he deleted his Twitter cause of abuse" which is true but that was because he posted a meme that basically said if you don't play soccer I don't care about your opinion.

    But in reality? Leeds content creators and forums were basically like "yeah he's not performing but we knew he wasn't a prem player so we aren't gonna be mad at him"
     

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