Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I didn't call anyone a liar for using the word diplomacy.

    You're the one who said that Dempsey said something he doesn't actually mean for diplomatic reasons, not me.
     
  2. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I feel like when discussing Berhalter it always goes in circles. I absolutely think there are things we can criticize Gregg for, and as I've said many times from my point of view the bigger issue was roster selection rather than tactics. I don't really want to get into a tactical argument but as I've said before, while I do see values in a lot of people labeled as Gregg's guys, the answer to make adjustments should not always be Kellyn Acosta, DeAndre Yedlin, Jordan Morris, and Paul Arriola. Not to say none of them shouldn't get called up but the answer shouldn't always be go to the grinders no matter what
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's plenty of valid reasons for criticizing Berhalter.

    But pretending that everyone who thinks he was alright is lying for personal gain, or simply misstating facts to make decisions more egregiously wrong seems par for the course for a number of posters.
     
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  4. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we knew who "they" are we wouldn't call them "they" !!!
     
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  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do think it didn’t help that they got very little out of Vela over the two legs. But it’s also true that they are less top heavy than other teams in MLS.
     
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  6. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Yep. Honestly I think Berhalter was... fine. Drove me insane at times for different reasons but I also feel that for some players the fans really overrated where certain players were. I'll use Dest as an example because early on in the Hex and during the last NL he made some bad mistakes and fans dismissed it as him playing out of position. Turns our he's made a lot of the same mistakes at both Milan and Barca. I like Dest a lot still but we have to accept that with him you're gonna have to deal with defensive issues and fairly consistent brain farts.... hell I'd say the same think with Jedi but over the last two seasons he's taken a big leap as a player.

    I will also say that while I'm impressed Gregg won the NL and Gold Cup I think he made the Gold Cup a lot harder on himself offensively with the player selection... of course you had some weird situations like Green and Luca not in camp (Luca wanting to establish himself at Heracles and Fruerth being a bit difficult with Green) and Busip IMO not providing what was expected of him but even then just felt like a roster that wasn't built to do what Gregg wanted going forward.

    And again, I know it's hyperbole, but the perception that no matter how the game was going we would bring I'm Accosta and Yedlin to change the attitude tended to just make games chipper. Nothing against each player and both are known as great locker room guys and leaders, but time and place to being them on.
     
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  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They probably would have had to do something like offer Hudson the U23 team. But the reports were that they were unwilling to make any sort of commitment to Hudson as to his role at US Soccer post Gold Cup.
     
  8. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    good
     
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  9. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Herc with a good point

     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Right, but it isn't because they are paying Vela $10M and not distributing the cash.
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep. I think in many ways the task was likely harder than fans made out. He helped remake what was a broken culture. He helped us move forward. He put a lot of time into certain elements of the program that had been somewhat ignored. He accomplished what Earnie wanted, more or less.

    We also didn't wildly outperform, and we could never really get the offense to click. That's not all on him, but there's a coach out there that probably can get it done. Figuring out who that is is a different story.

    He's far from perfect, and there's plenty to argue with in the micro, but that's true of any manager. Macro-wise, coming off the Couva debacle, and all that surrounded it, we needed someone who could help build a foundation and not screw everything up. And he did that, and in that context, he did that very well.

    Even without the Reyna stuff, I'd question bringing him back. I just don't know that he's the guy to help the team take the next step. I don't think he'd be terrible, and I actually think there's a chance he could grow with the team. But I do think that new ideas, new motivations, etc., could potentially elevate play.

    But that's a far cry from the idea that he did a poor job. I just don't really get why it is hard to people to admit that someone like Clint might actually see a cohesive team with and organized defense, more modern offensive tactics, taking steps forward, that performs roughly to the talent level, and goes "yeah, I think he's a pretty good coach."
     
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  12. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    C’mon, you know why. Non of it is flattering.
     
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  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Berhalter basically met expectations. He didn’t surpass them, but he also didn’t underperform either.

    He wasn’t a perfect coach, but he did a lot of good things in terms of rebuilding the culture and taking steps forward in terms of our style of play.

    I think the issue is what people really want is a coach who is going to exceed expectations. And that’s a really hard thing to expect from any coach.

    There’s also the notion that the Netherlands game was a big missed opportunity. When in reality the Netherlands has more talent than we do.

    When I think of missed opportunities and US Soccer I think of the 2010 round of 16 game against Ghana and being up 2-0 in the 2009 Confederations Cup final.

    And the thing is I don’t think Berhalter will be back anyways and as a result I don’t think there’s a ton of value in terms of constantly relitigating his tenure. But I’d also prefer someone come in who is going to build on the good things he did versus someone Marsch coming in and changing things up fairly significantly.
     
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  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to add some fuel to the fire

     
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  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    ?
     
  16. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I didn't know that USSF consists of 2 people + makeshifts. Thanks for the info. That certainly simplifies things.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, that was my tongue in cheek approximation of the point of your post -- that you were saying Clint was not being truthful.

    So, no, I'm not calling Clint a liar; I'm saying you said that he wasn't being truthful. Get it?
     
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  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’re the one who said we need to purge the bureaucracy. Who exactly are we purging?

    And yes USSF is an organization with more than 2 employees, but a significant number of those employees are support staff who don’t have anything to do with decision making when it comes to the national team.
     
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  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    In general I don't agree with Charlie Davies as far as USMNT is concerned but the tenor of his remarks here echo the experience of watching Berhalter's WC team, imo. He criticizes Coach Makeshift in this instance.

    "we bottled it......" see for yourself.:

     
  20. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah, i was talking about bouanga- not bale last season and chielini still. could you go back to ignoring me?
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    do you really think its cone, bateson and 94 secretaries/security/janitorial staff emplyed by ussf?
     
  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    For the record, my case is that keeping Berhalter in the works is causing those who worked under him at USSF to operate under his shadow, so to speak. The word "purge" was used jocularly refering to how they are thinking in terms of believing the "boss" could be back. Each person should be judged on his merits when the new manager is hired. I'm sure many will continue at USSF.
     
  23. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I cant recall a coach coming out and saying the roster rules are holding them back this directly (unless they were a foreign coach with a foot out the door). Maybe there is a window of opportunity in the next year's with Leagues Cup and CCL and the expanded CWC, and 2026 WC, that saying this can actually affect change.
     
  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No.

    But you do have a significant amount of support staff who handle things like the logistics of getting players to camp and hosting soccer games, you have medical and training staff, finance staff, communications staff, legal, sales, administrative staff, etc. When I say support staff I mean staff at USSF who make sure the place functions but don’t really have anything to do with the soccer decision making. And it’s a significant amount of people.

    Within the soccer side of things you have Crocker and Gooch at the top, a GM for the women’s team, and coaches for each of the various national teams (including the interim staff for the USMNT). Then you scouts, analytics staff, coaching education staff, and referee education. You also have people who do things like run the US Open Cup. A lot of this stuff is soccer related, but pretty ancillary to the USMNT.

    And If you remember part of the reason McBride left the job was he didn’t have enough to do (which is why the duties were expanded for Gooch and include things like fundraising).

    Which of these people would you like to fire and what do you think there role is when it comes to the USMNT?

    For our purposes the three most impotent people are Crocker, Gooch, and whoever they hire as the next national team coach.
     
  25. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They use 3 U22's and only 2 DPs. They have space in theory for a YDP. Vela just looks past it to me. He should be a 30 min player in the Ilsinho role not the 60 min leader he was last year.
     

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