News: China! China! China!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by marek, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    China continues it's attack on the USD - After Saudi Arabia, most of Africa and Latin America, now France just dropped the dollar for the Yuan for it's LNG trade deal

    Looks like they haven't got over the submarine deal...
     
  2. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  3. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    What submarine deal
     
  4. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Australia was going to buy submarines from France, but the US jumped in and offered to sell submarines to Australia. Australia bought the submarines from the US instead of France. France was mad at the US about this. This happened a couple of years ago.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Australia always wanted the nuclear subs IIRC

    Of course for the people who fap over Xi and Putin, they see this as a part of a huge conspiracy where someone Macron is plotting the end of the $
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Nations aren't moving away from the dollar to "end" it but to "protect" themselves from it. As a reserve currency, the USD is now at around 59% - it's lowest since 1990 and it will keep decreasing with ASEAN nations now talking about dropping it. The USD will remain the top reserve currency for the foreseeable future but the US might be forced to live within its mean in the long run
     
  7. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This is very good for China. We'll have to see how this does for Brazil. The renminbi isn't convertible, so any that Brazil gets will have to be used on Chinese goods. And Brazil will get a lot because they export substantially more to China than China exports to Brazil. They can try to invest in Chinese companies or real estate or financial instruments, but that is very risky and it is going to increasingly tie their economy to the Chinese one.

    China needs these kinds of deals because they don't have a lot of dollars. Yes they get a lot from trade, but it goes out even faster. I don't see this agreement as a sign of strength, but a sign of weakness.
     
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  8. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    ChrisSSBB repped this.
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think the idea is to actually reduce their exposure to the USD. The Chinese have been dumping US treasuries at an accelerated pace. As for Brazil, China is their #1 partner - makes sense to remove the USD from their bilateral trade.
     
  10. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    WashingtonCNN —
    The Chinese spy balloon that transited the US earlier this year was able to capture imagery and collect some signals intelligence from US military sites, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

    The balloon was able to transmit information back to Beijing in real time, the source said, and the US government still does not know for sure whether the Chinese government could wipe the balloon’s data as it received it. That raises questions about whether there is intelligence the balloon was able to gather that the US still doesn’t know about.

    Still, the intelligence community has not been overly concerned about the information the balloon was able to gather, the person said, because it is not much more sophisticated than what Chinese satellites are able to glean as they orbit over similar locations.

    The US also knew what the balloon’s path would be and was able to protect sensitive sites and censor some signals before the balloon was able to pick them up, officials have said.


    Chinese spy balloon was able to transmit information back to Beijing | CNN Politics

    a bit surprised at the discounting of intelligence gathered by balloons vs that gathered by satellite

    I also wonder how many man hours are involved in running around and covering our sensitive sites with giant tarps :)
     
  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure why you are surprised.. Modern spy satellites can see with great detail what is on the ground. I'm not sure the exact detail (I'm not sure anyone outside the intelligence community knows that), but the details of the Chinese balloon isn't going to be significantly better than what they should have been able to gather from their satellites.

    It's mostly stored in hangars while not in use because of satellites. Whatever sensitive stuff they have is either in the hangars, or disguised 24/7, with the exception being when they are performing tests and those tests are scheduled to avoid when satellites are over the area. So it may have actually been zero man hours other than what was necessary to cancel scheduled tests.
     
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  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe they were trying to collect none imagine data.

    There still some intelligence that Satellites can't collect.

    I have no clue how much better a balloon could do, maybe there was something the Chinese liked.
     
  13. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The main thing is that balloons are way, way cheaper than satellites. You can have more overflights with them. Also, the less air, the better the picture can be. I don't know if Chinese technology is as good as American optical sensors and the processing behind it, but what the US does in its high-altitude drones is scary. As in track what every individual does within dozens of square miles does for the day scary.
     
  14. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Aren't these Chinese waters though? Some may argue that having military ships cruise around one's own waters isn't that weird.
     
  16. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Wouldn't the US react the same way if Chinese warships sailed through the Gulf of Mexico?

    Also, they seem to be challenging the US interpretation of "freedom of navigation" which is the US right of unimpeded transit passage without the consent, or any reaction from the coastal states.

    China claims that this isn't the same as "freedom of navigation under international law". Article 25 of the Convention provides that the coastal state may take the necessary steps to prevent passage which is not innocent. That is, the coastal States have the right to decide whether the passage of a foreign ship is consistent with the “right of innocent passage” under Article 19.

    https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf
    upload_2023-6-5_9-17-6.png

    upload_2023-6-5_9-31-24.png

    U.S. warships may exercise the right of innocent passage, but at the same time must respect the coastal state's determination of whether the passage is innocent and comply with the laws and regulations of the coastal State - which the US clearly isn't doing.
     
  17. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Don’t remember who said it, or the direct quote… but it was under President Clinton when he sent the US Navy to show China our ‘big stick’ … but it went something like this… we reserve the right to sail our Navy through international waters now, and anytime I’m the future if we feel like it
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No? It is probably better to say it is contested waters. Taiwan and its allies claim that Taiwan has territorial waters, while China does not acknowledge those claims.
     
  19. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Taiwan is recognized in international law (and by the US) as a province of China, and is located right off the coast of the mainland. If there's a war over this, the term "unprovoked" wouldn't apply here.
     
  20. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there an authoritarian regime whose side you won't take? Syria, maybe?
     
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  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His answer is obviously 'Merica
     
  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    How's that relevant? What's your plan, provoke every country who's leader you don't like?

    Nope, shouldn't be done to the US either - which is the point of my argument. Disliking a president isn't an excuse to provoke the US by sending warships near their coasts
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Let’s check in on that. Oh wait the US are the top supporter of nazis!

     
  24. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Stop the presses.......

    Taylor Swift Accidentally Swallowed a Bug During Her Chicago Show and Had a Coughing Fit


    [​IMG]By Mehera BonnerPublished: Jun 5, 2023 :eek:
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

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