2023 FIFA U-20 World Cup - USA vs Uruguay - 6/4 5:00 PM EST (Pre-match/PBP/Post-game)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Master O, Jun 1, 2023.

  1. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I think Uruguay initially was set up to deny us play up the middle. They ceded the long switches. I think our ability to hit them forced an adjustment. Which theoretically should have opened up the middle for us. We failed to make that adjustment. It would have involved having Luna dropping back more into deep midfield (I thought he drifted wide too much), and giving Vargas orders to look to push up more.
     
    chad and gogorath repped this.
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think we can beat anyone ... just winning 7 games or whatever it will be is likely a bridge too far. Part of it is that top player -- the Modric, or Mbappe, or Messi.

    The other gap for me is overall depth, especially with well rounded games. Soccer is a weak link sport in a lot of ways, and I think even when we face a team without that top player or two, we still come in with a disadvantage. The next step is probably adding that depth, along with a more well-rounded and flexible game.

    And then you basically try to figure out how to get a top player. I have no idea if there's even anything you can do systematically on that.

    I don't think we need that latter to make a nice run. But we'll need some breaks along the way. Morocco made the semis. I don't think if we replayed the World Cup, they would again. But they still made it.

    I think this team has the potential to help with depth, but aside from Slonina (and probably for 2030, not 2026), I don't think *that* level of star power is there.
     
    Hexa, gomichigan24 and Marius Tresor repped this.
  3. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    And Kobi Henry was also hurt. I think in an ideal world Varas would have had Neal and Henry instead of Ferkranus and Halladay.

    I do feel like I'm semi overly critical of Wynder and even Che but today the weaknesses came up. Of course the good news is that in theory experience should help them get better.
     
    chad and Marius Tresor repped this.
  4. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Yes. But I think we'll look back at this particular U-20 cohort as providing some good depth to the senior team. There are not stars of the Pulisic/Reyna magnitude. But really good depth. And I think we need to consider some of the top players from this cohort who were not on the team, in particular Pepi and Neal. Those two fill two areas of need on the senior team.
     
    Winoman, Marius Tresor and gogorath repped this.
  5. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Today was not irrelevant, though. Worth more than your average Chelsea U21 game maybe?
     
  6. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Pepi would have helped this team immensely.
     
    ChicagoVT, Pl@ymaker and chad repped this.
  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Sometimes I think guys just can't think at his level, then I watch the terrible shots and mishit passes and I realize he's just not a complete player, and the issues are potentially career wrecking. Hope he continues to grow though.
     
  8. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I think we learn more about about players when we lose a game. So yeah, today is a data point with extra weight.
     
    theboogeyman repped this.
  9. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    He was the star of the team in qualifying. He’s much better than Luna right now. I have no idea how good he will be at club level moving forward, but “a few Bundesliga cameos off the bench” is a very impressive accomplishment for a 19-year-old American. If he wasn’t any better than Luna, then Luna would’ve earned a 4.5 million dollar move, and sub minutes for one of the better teams in the Bundesliga.
     
  10. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    He and Neal are probably going to have the most significant impact on the senior team of all the players in this cohort (well I should mention Slonina but goalies aren't really soccer players). There is a reason they were not released by their clubs.
     
  11. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    You’re right, but that’s why we should take the results in this event with a grain of salt. Other countries are missing a lot of top players too, and the format is such that top soccer countries are underrepresented compared to the senior World Cup.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    He's hyped up because he produced freaking everything in qualifying. It has nothing to do with the Bundesliga, he would have provided a creative outlet centrally at the tip of the spear.

    Does he change it? I doubt it, we got squashed with him against quality competition too. Uruguay was supposed to beat us and the only reason we really had a chance in my view was the rest angle, but of course Aaronson would've helped, so would having Pukstas, Paredes for the whole tournament and Guti at all.
     
    ChicagoVT repped this.
  13. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Yeah again for as exciting as Diego Luna can be, he's at his best picking the ball up deep and then using his dribbling to advance the ball. He's not the greatest passer nor is he the best decision maker. What this game became was Luna getting the ball deeper but them we only have Cowell in the final 3rd where we were relying on him for everything. Paxten could have been more of the point of thr attack
     
    Bajoro, gogorath and theboogeyman repped this.
  14. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    #439 Marius Tresor, Jun 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2023
    Yeah, I forgot about Pepi, who was age eligible for this team. Malik Tillman was about 6 months too old and Yunus Musah and Gio Reyna were only about a month too old. The arbitrary FIFA age cut-off every 2 years precludes a true evaluation of the age group, plus the best players not getting released from their clubs. There is a lot of potential in the larger age pool U-20/21.

    The 2021 U-20 World Cup would have been pretty much the full senior National Team, plus Balogun. It is pretty crowded at the top. So, we are probably just looking for depth or a superstar or 2 at this point.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  15. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    + Joe Scally born 12/31/2002
     
  16. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Thanks, another one. One day too old. It is a real logjam at this age level.
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    depth is another word for logjam
     
    olephill2, deejay and Marius Tresor repped this.
  18. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Id put it as more complicated than that:

    2-3 guys who are starter relevant.

    1-3 guys who are potentially bench relevant.

    In good cycles we pull 4-6 guys that are starter and bench relevant.

    In bad cycles its 0-2.
     
    Boysinblue and Marius Tresor repped this.
  19. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    I was miserable watching this game, but I feel much better now thinking about the big picture.

    You should try to get about 3-4 players from each 2 year age cohort for the senior team. When you account for Pepi, Reyna (1.5 months too old), Musah (1 month too old) and potentially Slonina down the road, that’s our fill. Add potential senior players or depth pieces in Aaronson, Paredes and Cowell, and that’s not too bad for this group. I’ve never seen Neal play, but you might add him, too. Plus, someone like Craig or another defender could sneak in.

    Furthermore, we don’t need to rely on athleticism, grit and an overly defensive posture like we used to. Certainly, we played weak teams in this tourney until Uruguay so we can’t take too much away from that, but even against Uruguay, we were able to play real soccer at times (albeit with mistakes and flaws).

    Overall, our program continues to progress as the floor of our player pool improves technically and tactically.
     
    Marius Tresor and chad repped this.
  20. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It unfortunately was clear that the players we had in this tournament are MLS level and on the bench in Europe level. No one we had available was above that, or showed much - here - that they will soon be.

    But! Fingers-crossed and stuff for the dudes on this roster.
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  21. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    As we get deeper I think it will show up in the form of players who have significant careers with clubs in Big 5 leagues but not significant national team careers. Both criteria are relevant to assessing our progress as a soccer playing country.

    Guys in this cohort (and I'm not going to count the ones who are playing up and the ones who just missed the age cutoff like Scally) who I think have at least a 50% chance of significant careers in Top 5 leagues: Pepi, Neal, Slonina, Cowell, Paredes, Wiley. I see that cup as more than half full.

    The cohort before is higher quality: Reyna, Musah, Scally, Balogun, Tillman. But 3 of them didn't come up through our system.

    It takes a little squinting but I see mostly progress.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  22. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    Forgot to add Scally who is a day too old.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  23. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    I’ve never seen Wiley play before but read the hype. Was this game an aberration for him?…he looked terrible on offense and defense
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Poor game for him. He is the real deal.
     
  25. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cowell really impressed me this tournament, totally different than what I saw in qualifying. The US ended up playing more through him than McGlynn or any other mid. It's a testament to his running, he's all over the place, but also his quick decision making ability and improved technique.

    I thought Varas erred in starting Wolff over Paredes. Paredes is a threat in a way Wolff never will be, and they needed that against Uruguay. If the US were more capable on set pieces, Paredes is a weapon because he'll get you 4 or 5 around the box via fouls against.
     

Share This Page