2022-2023 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

Interesting how some of us reach certain conclusions, only to be proven wrong so soon.

(This isn't to pick on anyone in particular, I just find it interesting.)

 

My reaction to this news

 

Yeah, half the point of this forum is to make predictions and if we shouldn't, then what is the point of the forum?

Debate and vote whether Newcastle vs. Tottenham is a "big match" and tally how many "big matches" Michael Oliver has done in an EPL season?

Not to pick on anyone in particular just find it interesting....

 

My point (which I thought was obvious that I didn’t need to spell it out, but apparently it wasn’t) was that often things don’t turn out to be as severe as they initially seem, in particular concerning how referees are “punished”.

 

By all means, making predictions is interesting and I honestly enjoy reading all predictions here. Which is why I emphasized I didn’t mean to pick on anyone by quoting those posts!

And thanks for bringing up the “big matches”. I also do find that interesting!

 

I have noticed that also. I just can't put my finger on why, although there may be several reasons. Repetition and predictability, maybe?

PH

 

Can't imagine what you're talking about

Anyhoo, tomorrow (Saturday) is the Women's Champions League final between Barcelona and Wolfsburg in Eindhoven (Netherlands); 10AM/ET; 7PT

Referee Cheryl Foster WAL

Assistant referees:
Michelle O'Neill IRL
Franca Overtoom NED

Fourth Official Rebecca Welch ENG

Video Assistant Referee Massimiliano Irrati ITA
AVAR1: Sian Massey ENG
AVAR2: Maria Sole Caputi ITA

 

I would not be so pessimistic. In the past year or so we've had new contributors like @StarTime and @soccerref69420, whose posts I enjoy reading. More people will join from time to time!

 

Apropos predictions, Euro 2024 is still a year from now and lots of things can happen, but just as it would probably be hard to assign Marciniak to the Final if France makes it (as @RedStar91 pointed out), it would also be hard to assign Taylor if Italy (and maybe even Spain) makes it. Combined with the fact that England has consistently been reaching the final stages recently (even if not becoming champions themselves), this may well limit the chance of Taylor emulating his compatriots Webb and Clattenburg.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ine-ban-after-referee-abuse-draws-uefa-charge
UEFA started investigation into behaviour of Mourinho, it is said even lipreaders are being used.

 

Hasn’t Taylor said he isn’t sticking around until the Euros next year? All of this may be a moot point anyway. In any case, if UEFA had any courage they’d recognize Taylor did a fine job officiating and not get bullied by these countries.

 

Don't remember he said that, but maybe I just missed it.

 

This is true as someone in that age group. but as you probably know, refereeing is a very difficult subject to discuss with "the masses". Twitter is unusable garbage for everything. And Reddit's soccer board was truly enraging to try to engage in any discussions from a referee standpoint. But at least they post clips of straight reds and second yellows from completely random leagues

I found this board because I wanted to try to find any place where I could discuss referee matters outside of the people I know in real life. I am more interested in the clip discussion and sharing stories aspect of refereeing rather than what a lot of you get into with refereeing history, predictions about referee appointments and their assignment trends, etc.

 

Lazio fans displaying their new idol in their match at Empoli. First referee ever to have a picture on a banner!?

 

No Tony, no party!

 

Do you mean Anthony or Antonio?

No one has reached the level of having masks dedicated to themselves though, and probably no one ever will.

 

Beautiful scenes as Mateu Lahoz retires after Mallorca - Rayo Vallecano. And what a way to do it - with no cards in his last game (and three of his last four).



Muchas gracias Antonio. We will miss you!

 

My feelings right now



You guys all know how obsessed I am with Mateu Lahoz. I basically only discovered him in the 2021 Champions League Final, didn't know him before that. He did two things that made me love him. One was helping up Rudiger while showing him a yellow, the other was demonstratively slapping his chest and arm repeatedly to say the ball went from chest to arm and therefore wasn't a handball. Everyone loved him after this. Imagine my dismay when I have heard since that everyone hates how he makes himself the main character.

Probably one of the most unfairly treated refs in the world from what I've seen and it's something that drew me so much to him. I have seen multiple matches of his where commentators will literally say how good of a referee he is while criticizing his "theatrics". I have heard some players and coaches in La Liga say how he is their favorite referee because he explains things on the field. He has games where he gives out a ton of cards that are deserved, he gets criticized. He has a game like the World Cup Netherlands-Argentina where he gives out a ton of cards and gets criticized for not giving more. People get pissed off about referees never explaining their decisions to players/coaches, then when he has to delay the game to do it, people act like he's delaying the game just to get the camera on himself. "El Dia Despues" is a soccer tv program in Spain and they post their videos you Youtube. Usually their videos get tens of thousands of views. The Lahoz ones get hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions.

I am not ashamed to say that I have modeled some of my game after him. Giving yellow cards has helped me never lose control of games. Explaining decisions on the field has helped me immensely to be the referee willing to talk to players and explain things, rather than being the referee who acts like he's too good to talk to the peons.

Can you experienced guys who have seen him a lot give your honest opinions on how you feel about the guy? Maybe I'm just looking through rose colored glasses. He's not a Kuipers or maybe recently Marciniak with his overall refereeing, but he has to be up there. I wish there was a way I could contact him to say how much I respect him.




And if anyone wants to see his classic Barcelona-Espanyol game three weeks after Argentina-Netherlands where he gave 16 yellows (7 for dissent) where 11 cautions and two reds were from 74' to the end, here's that classic

https://fullmatchsports.cc/barcelona-vs-espanyol-full-match-2022-23/?tab=second-half


If there was justness in this world, Lahoz's free agency would have leagues around the world bidding on his services. I have brought it up here before, and it won't happen, but seeing him in MLS or EPL would be so awesome

 

You could try the Valencia Regional Referee Committee (cta@ffcv.es).

 

Lahoz was never the same type of referee as Kuipers or as Marciniak, he had a very different and unique style.

When looking at the last decade, I think most people would agree that Çakir, Brych, and Kuipers were the ones who stood above all other UEFA referees, and I wouldn’t put Lahoz quite into that exclusive category; but don’t take that the wrong way, he is not too far off those legends!

Like many elite referees, average fans will remember him mostly for his follies (ITA-SWE, NED-ARG) rather than his successes. The truth is that he was a great referee who handled many big matches successfully over his career. He was an easier target for fans because of the way he refereed.

Where Lahoz really set himself apart from others was his truly unique style that worked in his own way, highlighted by lots of gestures, explanations, and most importantly a very close emotional relationship with the players.

Would love to hear what @Mikael_Referee has to say to summarize Lahoz’s career.

 

He was very lucky at first - they obviously had their eye on him for years but Mateu was promoted to UEFA Elite not really on merit in the winter of 2014/15 (anticipating a replacement for Velasco). His first performances at that level were a bit of a mess, very haphazard use of cards and only skating through only by force of personality. The match, and indeed the season, which really changed my view on him was the Manchester City vs. Monaco CL tie (3-5 the score) in 16/17, where he correctly awarded a penalty, brilliantly cautioned Agüero for diving and cautioned nine other players, showed immense mental strength in a very chaotic and tough match. He followed that up with another outstanding performance (Lyon vs. Besiktas), and finally got a CL SF, establishing himself as a top UEFA referee. Easily forgotten also is how 'busy' his style was back then, always making gestures to indicate play on by pointing upwards, etc.

I was very surprised by his appointment to the Italy vs. Sweden playoff back then, and this should be underlined - in terms of 'seniority', he was far behind names like Mažić, Brych, Kuipers, Marciniak who got different matches, and Çakir who got the (naturally less decisive) first leg of the tie. UEFA very deliberately picked Mateu for one of the hardest matches in the last twenty years. Unlike you, I thought his performance was outstanding - never missed a clear penalty (of the four big appeals: the first rightly waved off, the second was 50/50 but my strong feeling is that the Swede kicked at the hand on purpose à la Baggio vs. Chile so better to play on (in such a game), third should definitely have been given but he couldn't see it, fourth he rightly detected an attacking handball before). And his management was obviously outstanding.

In my mind, he appeared less motivated after the stop for Covid. If Italy vs. Sweden was absolutely not a folly in my view, then Portugal vs. France at the last EURO definitely was; he lost the thread in that game and UEFA took the right decision to reject him. However - Mateu was rather unlucky, as that performance was a natural consequence of being 'too tired' after the accumulation of appointments that Rosetti (who wasn't his biggest fan, it is fair to say...) gave him in that summer. Kuipers and Brych by contrast were given much more benign runs.

And everyone remembers the Qatar WC, the big mess of Argentina vs. Netherlands. His first two assignments were also quite 'delicate' too! Was that quarterfinal game unrefereeable in the current FIFA climate of forced leniency and the benches anarchy? I don't think so, actually, but certainly it was the hardest WC match since Webb's final (and only one more comes to mind up-to-and-including 1986 on a difficulty level) - and as I analysed in a lonnggg post on here iirc, it wasn't Mateu's day. Pre-covid, example being his 'famous' WC playoff, IMO it would have been different.

More popular with players than his referee managers and colleagues, I think just how good Mateu was gets lost by the sentiment isn't his unique style great. Recently, I watched a number of matches handled by another great man of refereeing, Anders Frisk, and while he was a very, very good ref, his ability to lead the most difficult matches doesn't come that close to Mateu Lahoz's in my opinion. People will talk about Collina and the image he created for himself, but no guy actually 'transcended' refereeing, with such ability to win respect from players, control the hottest matches, since a guy in the 1980s (an Italian called Agnolin). Maybe Clattenburg tbf, but only for a short time.

There are many 'parables' to Mateu's career, but personally, I just say that obviously I watched mannyyy many football matches and ref performances in my time, but the one game where I managed to watch him live in the stadium is a memory that I hold quite dear.

We won't ever see the like again!