Pre-match: Nations League Final Camp Discussion

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by thedukeofsoccer, May 7, 2023.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first week is to get in shape so coming in the second week while in better shape would be a small advantage. Every additional week starts becoming a disadvantage. We have so few players that are cast in stone starters for their current team unfortunately.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the wing at least if the Nations League guys aren’t available at all (and I think some will be), there’s not a ton of depth behind them. Without those guys hard to put together a roster without Morris and Arriola at that position in particular.

    According to Callaghan Acosta is about ready to go but they held him “out of an abundance of caution.”
     
  3. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the main thing is that there is a lot of opportunity to make an impression this summer. Mark agrees.
    The Gold Cup is going to be a scrub roster. Zimmerman coming back from injury and Richards who barely played this season should be there.

    Not sure why this is controversial or complicated. It’s the time to tinker with things now. Get McKenzie in with the first team and see how it goes.
     
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  4. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    You’re not wrong. But the counter is that we don’t have to qualify for the WC so this is a great opportunity for guys to experience some do-or-die games before 2026. I’d rather miss out on the Copa than roll into 26 with some key guys who haven’t experienced that sort of national team pressure before.
     
  5. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just snidely dismissing others' (very likely accurate) opinions of it.
     
  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Gold Cup is where Miles Robinson and Matt Turner won spots in 2021 on what was very much a B/C team.

    This Gold Cup is an opportunity for all the guys who end up on the roster. If Mark McKenzie has a good Gold Cup it will definitely go a long way towards his future national team prospects.

    The Nations League is the A team and the Gold Cup is where we’ll experiment (and neither Zimmerman and Richards are on the provisional roster so they can’t be there).
     
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  7. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I keep hearing this kind of thing from many many people but I have given it a bit of thought and I have a question: Why play in a tournament if you are not willing to go all in to win it? Particularly as these are both CONCACRAP tournaments and the only thing that makes one more important than the other is that people keep saying they are that way.
    I believe that no country needs to explain of justify their roster selection however it does seem quite stupid to have one intentionally weak lineup and one stronger one when we are, supposedly, in both tournaments to win and we certainly seem quite proud when we do.
    It just makes no sense to waste even the B/C/D players playing in a tournament that we are not truly trying to win.

    I do not think USA Soccer is truly trying to win both. They endow the "Nations League" with the greater importance but that seems very artificial.

    I believe we should simply choose the best teams we can, figuring injuries and player's other needs, for both. In fact I would, if anything, go easy on the MLS selections (that is favor players not in season) as the MLS is playing right now and most of the rest are not.

    I do not really care if we win or lose these tournaments but it really looks stupid to intentionally put out a lineup that is not the best. It tells the players that, "if you are not on the best roster and going to the best tournament then you are not good enough."

    Lastly it is NOT tournament play that improves players it is club play. In fact "tournament" play producing "familiarity" is vastly over rated. The system that a national coach devises should be set to maximize the ease by which new players can move into it and old players leave with minimal problems.

    The only time we should design a system that might exclude players if if we had a Messi or such and, even then, I think a more general system might be best. BTW: We ain't got a Messi or even a potential one. WE have good players but not one great one. We used to have great goalkeepers but now even the goalkeeping is questionable.

    Both these tournaments should be for experimentation as both mean almost nothing.
     
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what exactly does giving the nl priority mean, though? its the 17 or 18 players a trained monkey could pick, to be managed by a guy somewhere between our former manager and a kit man (who followed a guy somewhere between gregg and the current human cost-saving measure). a handful or two of those guys and the next 10 walk to the gc semis vs comp like st kits and guyana.

    the fed doesnt care about any of it, they are taking the year off. and why wouldnt they? worked out fine for them last time, right?

    rely on sheer talent in the nl, cash the checks from the perma-hosted gold cup, we dont even have to qualify third thanks to goal differential this time. whenever lafc win/go out of the playoffs they can announce cherundolo (absolute best case scenario) and then hopefully get out of our group and everyone acts like we have progressed an inch in the last 25 years as a national team.

    we are, and will be, exactly as good as the portion of our pool whoever decides should play. clearly, raising the bar isnt on the feds agenda, only ticket prices and revenue sources.

    and i mean, how much difference is there between reyna and ferreira if theyre managed by a dude who was busy packing to go see his daughter play lacrosse? what good does scally do on our bench while we give every minute to a guy who is less of a professional soccer player than john brooks (in terms of actually playing soccer)? not to even get into the brooks stuff itself...

    every now and then we have most of the guys on the pitch that should be there, hopefully not too crippled by whatever second-rate manager is in charge. thats about as good as its going to get.
     
  9. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    So Robinson needs to play to prove himself and Richards...... great logic as always. Maybe you could add in an unrelated baseball or football quote or situation. Like maybe there was a player who chewed gum before he went up to bat and it helped his bunting percentage.
     
  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We starting Zimmerman vs Mexico in less than two weeks?





     
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  11. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I just have to say these people are full of shit. I rarely, rarely see club mistakes for Euro players discussed on social media. It’s not good for engagement (unlike this video which is going to get 100 RTs and 1000 likes). Far more likely to hear nothing or a triumphant post with good stats and a high FotMob rating from the same game. Bizarro Justin Moran is not making a Balogun missed “sitters” comp. Anyone have a link to all the videos blowing up Brooks’s club play mistakes that exist?
     
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  12. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    2021 Nations League Final squad - where are they now?

    Steffen, Horvath, Ochoa
    Brooks, McKenzie, Ream, Miazga
    Dest, Yedlin, A. Robinson, Cannon
    Adams, McKennie, Lletget, Acosta, Yueill, Musah
    Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, Aaronson

    Sargent, Pefok

    8 players likely return for the 2023 Nations League Final squad, barring last-minute injuries. Also notable is that every player except for Ochoa and Musah played in those two 2021 matches.

    It's actually rather amazing (a credit to both Berhalter and the players themselves, and also a sign to how young the US squads were last cycle) that all players except 2 still seem to be at least broadly in the US player pool. Sebastian Lletget has definitely slipped off the US radar since that summer. And of course, David Ochoa made the decision to join the Mexico National Team later in 2021, but his professional career has taken a downward turn since that time in any event.

    It's wild how relatively strong the US center back pool has become. Brooks, McKenzie, Ream, and Miazga started a combined 5 matches in 2022 qualifying (out of a possible 29 starts), and only Ream found a way into the World Cup squad with his stunning late career renaissance. Yet all 4 remain clearly viable contenders for the position in 2023 and the next few years. If the US is able to make use of Balogun, then suddenly the striker spot also looks relatively deep. Sargent and Pefok have had both struggles and successes since mid-2021 and clearly remain in the US picture.

    Fullback is slightly below those spots IMO, since they're relying on the uncertain success of a few young players in top European leagues. Yedlin doesn't need to prove anything with the US and is likely content to be called upon as needed. Cannon has flatlined a bit in Europe, but is also reasonable as a depth option.

    I'm less convinced about a few other positions. It's an open fight to see who the Top 3 are in goal IMO, so Steffen and Horvath have a decent chance to remain in the picture. But nobody has really broken out, and Turner is likely to be a backup at Arsenal for at least 1 more season. And the central midfielders beyond the Top 3 have a lot to prove, so I think it will be an important summer for A Morris, T Tillman, and Cardoso.
     
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  13. Mike03

    Mike03 Member

    Jun 7, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    There are still pockets of quality discussion on twitter that rise above the shit. The US soccer twitter community is not among them.
     
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  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he’s not healthy and ready to go I assume they’ll replace him with McKenzie.
     
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  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The players who play in both tournaments are not going to think they mean almost nothing. And I for would much rather win than lose them both.

    There’s very specific reasons we aren’t going to send our best team to the Gold Cup. Some guys have played a ton of minutes this year, including a mid season World Cup and simply need a break (Jedi is an example of this). Other guys are going to be making moves this summer and need to go to their new club for a full preseason (Pulisic and Dest are examples of this). And the flip side is there are a number of guys who deserve a look to see whether or not they should be integrated with the A team. These guys may already be our amongst our better players, but they sort of have to prove it on the field. Just like how Miles Robinson and Matt Turner made their case at the 2021 Gold Cup.

    The schedule for the two tournaments is also off because of the after effects of COVID. The intention is (and will be going forward) to play the Nations League finals in March as opposed to back to back with the Gold Cup. If they weren’t back to back you’d probably see more carryover.

    But if you don’t really care about these tournaments, I’m not sure what you are doing posting in a thread about a tournament you purport not to care about.
     
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  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s true I prefer not to waste my time getting angry about things that haven’t actually happened yet.

    But if you want to get worked up over the inclusion of Aaron Long on a 60 man provisional roster you go right ahead and do so.
     
  17. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is that an auto-response on your keyboard or something? cause its pretty stupid.

    as for long, youre both arguing with the wrong person and just wrong. you and i and everyone else here knows its very likely long will be on the gc roster. admittedly that is a bummer, but im not neglecting my wife and kids over it- be a little less thirsty for likes, maybe?
     
  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s actually not at clear Long will be on the Gold Cup roster as there are a ton of possible alternatives at center back in particular. I don’t think he will be picked.

    The MLS vets most likely to be there are Morris (if healthy), Acosta, and Johnson, I think Yedlin or Moore are probably more likely than Aaron Long as well.

    But we’ll see once there’s an actual roster.
     
  19. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you literally cant go one sentence without intellectual dishonesty, can you?
     
  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure what intellectually dishonest in saying there are a number of center backs on the provisional roster for the Gold Cup that are likely to be picked before Aaron Long.

    Not sure why you have such an axe to grind but par for the course.
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Could Aaron Long be on the Gold Cup roster? Yes.

    In general, his play in MLS this year has been good enough to warrant a callup.

    Will he be? I have no idea. He wouldn't be on my roster.
     
  22. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    How is any of this not common knowledge for posters on a sports forum?
     
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  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well after watching Paredes in the U20's I've decided he's not anywhere near a Pulisic level talent and is not ready for the full team. I thought Craig upped his stock a lot as did Che Justin. None of the attackers upped their stock in the WC because while a few were good they weren't better than at qualifying. Slonina looked good also and I can see a path for him to be a starter for the full team some day but not yet.
     
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  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Pulisic didn't play for U20's, of course, so we don't know what he would have looked like.
     
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  25. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


     
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