MLS Flavors of the week 2023 edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 24, 2022.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Ferreira with a goal.

    Watching this LAFC game, I never want to see Ilie suggested again.
     
  2. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hollingshead another Flavor who had a bad night
     
    Boysinblue and gogorath repped this.
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The reason why for Hollingshead has always been defense. This is just a reminder that he's a winger playing fullback. He's not bad. He's not defending at an international level.
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Can we stop talking about Hollingshead and get back to talking about Alex Muyl?
     
  5. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    LAFC with life. wow
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I forgot that León is the Dortmund or Tottenham of Mexico.

    Cherundolo made a few minor adjusments and it didn't help all that much. Some of the subs seemed odd given performances, but I know they are pretty riddled with injuries.

    This was pretty much luck, though. Should've been 3-0, 4-0 and it was just 2-1.
     
    gomichigan24 repped this.
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seba Berhalter with a banger of a volley for his first pro goal!
     
    Mike03 repped this.
  9. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guzan with WPOOTBGW for the first Gil goal and looked like a bad FIFA AI GK on Gil's second goal
     
  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zinkoff, Winoman and Yowza repped this.
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Whenever I talk about Hollingshead's defensive performance I get totally crushed. But its reality. People can bring up some sort of metric to show that's not the case, but the eyeball test doesn't jive with that. His offensive prowess often makes up for it, though.

    I love Hollingshead (as an FCD fan), but have thought for a long time that the discussion about him being inexplicably left out of the USMNT.................is a little overplayed. Could he have gotten some caps in the Lovitz era at the start of the cycle? Sure. Definitely. I also think the outrage about Lovitz on these boards is overplayed. So whatever.
     
    gogorath and jaykoz3 repped this.
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Hollingshead's defense is fine over the aggregate of his career.
     
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  13. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not fair to evaluate a FB when he's 32 as if his actions then define his career. That's in his post-prime. Advocacy for a call-up came over the last decade when he wasn't.

    Like IE pointed out, his defense has been fine. He blocked a lot of crosses and came up w/ key interventions, in spite of being a strong offensive player too. That doesn't ironically hurt the case.

    Not to mention players aren't defined by 1 game. He had a beastly match or two earlier in the tourney. He just won MLS Cup where he was an asset. And he had several years where he was in the running for club POY's. Obviously a lot more good games than bad in those.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's coverable in MLS. You just don't want him one on one at higher levels. So what's the point?

    He's a good offensive player but he's always played as an extra winger, effectively.

    Most of us agree that there is a line, and some players who are good in MLS are also good in international play, and some don't translate. I think Hollingshead offense would translate but the defense would be an issue.

    Feel much the same way about Gressel. I would LOVE to have his crosses out there. His defense looks shaky to me at the international level.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    When do we get to the "supporters" part of Supporter's culture?
     
  16. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You and they didn't earn the benefit of the doubt because your theory was never put to the test. He never got a chance, and there's no shortage of opportunities given how many riffraff matches are played in this region.

    My theory was he was one of the players who would have translated due to his mobility which helps on D, 2-footedness, savviness in possession, confidence, moves, & technique. So I'd have given him the few chances initially that all good performers in our domestic league deserve before they're cast-off.

    Gressel's a total false equivalency because he didn't become eligible until almost 30 and he largely just provides production from a position where it's not the primary criteria. He's a poor man's Brooks Lennon internationally.

    Hollingshead has a ton of facets to his game the aforementioned don't, like; mobility, 2-footedness, take-on ability, swag, problem-solving in possession, and yes, 1 v. 1 defense + ball-winning; that they do not. So their under-impressiveness is not some of analog you can use as a proxy to defend the mistake to never give Hollingshead his own chances like people called for. I personally never cared nearly as much about those players as I did Hollingshead.
     
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  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    We've never seen Hollingshead at higher levels. Some of these extrapolations are groundless. He'd been an elite MLS fullback for years. He's 32, now. His time has passed. Move on.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Of course it wasn't put to the test. But it is still my opinion.

    We all have a tendency to underrate defense relative to coaches. Even if those coaches were wrong, I suspect that's a big reason why he's not called in.

    Feel much the same way about Parks. I don't know if he's actually be a defensive liability. Against an England or something, I'm certain, but against most teams, I merely think so.

    But I do think a big reason why he hasn't gotten called in is an honest lack of confidence in his ability to defend.
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is part of football culture I don't understand that's glorified in Europe. You're not doing as well, relative to others, as a team, for a period; so you should have to stand there and be harassed by fan bases. That's what he carried over from Rangers. That part he should have left there. Fans can blow off their steam, but you don't have to sit there and just be browbeat by them for long. In many of these cases, the individual isn't even part of the problem, so what do you want him to do.
     
  20. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2720 MuchoTakeItEasy, Jun 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
    I was becoming unenthused with the 3252 when #BradleyOut became a thing, and how they ran a few players out of town (Christian Ramirez). Same with MNT "fans" attacking players personally on twitter, it doesn't make players tougher. The 3252 has been better (of course its easy when you have a great season), but my perspective has changed to take the positives out of supporting and not really engage with the parts that trend towards negativity/toxicity. I go to games to enjoy the show, relax with friends and family, and if I'm leaving upset it probably has more to do with my expectations than much else (referees and opposing players exempted ;))
     
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  21. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He could have done an excellent Lovitz impression at minimum IMO. He has the ball skills of a CM.
     
  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His last few club coaches weren't fans. They valued him highly and won a lot of games together. You give performers at the club level a chance to prove you right/wrong.

    I don't think the reason he wasn't called in was defense, because they called in others who were actual liabilities in that regard.

    When it came to Klinsmann, he wasn't interested in domestic players, especially if they didn't come to the "extraneous" Jan camp.

    As for Sarachan, his main remit wasn't to win games, rather to build for the future. Hollingshead was a tweener in this sense as a FB in his early to later 20's.

    Finally, Berhalter got fixated on stay at home for his system like LB's like Ream and Lovitz. Before thinking he needed width/left-footers from the position. And even though Hollingshead provided it, he got iced because he was technically right-footed. Same reason DeJuan Jones didn't get a cap.

    Otherwise Hollingshead would have at least gotten a few cap tryout. This was an indefensible mistake, the type of which led to having a complete lack of depth at fb, so our starters were dead-legged come the KO stage last Cup. If Hollingshead wouldn't have provided this, Jones would have, or Tolkin, or Paredes.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    My literal least favorite part of sports are the fans who act like buying a ticket and cheering when things go well give them license to treat others like shit.

    And it's depressing that it absolutely seems to be their favorite part of it.
     
  24. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    George Bello got 7 caps and he's worse than Hollingshead defensively (victimized back post left and right, and generally aloof). So that being a reason/excuse for Ryan's exclusion is bunk.

    The heart of the meat of the matter is an option like Bello was young and technically left-footed (as opposed to ambidextrous like Hollingshead/Fabian, which is really better), so he got a bunch of call-ups instead. And I know some of the same people against this in philosophy are now ardently defending Hollingshead's exclusion.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, Bello got called up for potential and athletic ability.

    I'm not arguing that Hollingshead would have been an atrocious call up or that he's not on the level of many other left backs we've seen.

    I'm just saying that the likely reason is defense. Same with Parks, which baffles me at times as much as Hollingshead does you.
     

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