Ukraine vs Russia III

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, May 16, 2023.

  1. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's so weird, though -- if true, that seems like doing a tonsillectomy through the rectum -- especially when e.g. there are rail lines that run from Voronezh and Volgograd (both much, much larger than Belgorod) to Luhansk.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not really the lines, tho. It's where the supply depots are. I'd also assume there really isn't much incentive for Russia to move their depots since Ukraine can't really hit the supply depots inside Russia right now. The only weapons in Ukraine's arsenal that can hit and damage the depots are Western weapons and they have banned Ukraine from using them in Russia.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Deep State Radio's Michael Weiss has a good discussion with ISW

    Interesting thing on escalation. Ukraine really has no choice. The risk of getting nuked is somewhat meh when you look at what is being done to their cities anyway.

    Russia on the other hand has no army left over to fight NATO.

    So likely that escalation pathway is not a good one for Russia.

    It was also suggested Ukraine's strategic objectives lie in the south with Crimea in terms of being able to create conditions for a stable peace. Donbas is less attractive because it has been so trashed in the fighting
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Between 10 and 30 drones seen over Moscow today.

    Russia claims they shot down 10/10, Ukrainian vloggers claim there were up to 30.
     
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  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is going to make some tankie heads go 'splodey

     
  6. RafaLarios

    RafaLarios Member+

    Oct 2, 2009
    Medellín
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Of course , I think that if NATO sent them Tornados and Harriers they could find a use for them. Heck, send them f-4 Phantoms which are still in use in Greece.
     
  7. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Are you underestimating the national feelings of our Ukranian brothers and sisters who have been liberated and demand to be joined with the Ukranian motherland? I think the vote should be higher.
     
  8. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    In the 5 second vid, one was shot down

     
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Wow, shocking!

    Next thing you know we'll hear that Grima Wormtongue defected to Saruman.
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    These static defences strike me as a high level of copium

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s less the dragons teeth, bit more about the thousands of mines intermixed with the dragons teeth.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #437 The Jitty Slitter, May 31, 2023
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
    Yeah. comes down to fortified positions, mines, number of infantry, ATGMs, arty, mobile reserves etc

    But it does have strong Siegfried line vibes i.e more some concrete and lines on map
     
  13. What's the use of it if you can simply bomb a stretch of let's say 100meters wide through that terrain to clear it of mines and teeth?
     
  14. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The teeth aren't appropriate set up. You could see that they are just put on the ground. If a 70 ton tank drives over them, they will just get pushed away.
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    According to the dragons teeth experts out there, those loose ones are basically useless. They need to be denser and fixed
     
  16. Or maybe they're fake and made of cardboard:D
     
  17. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Even in that case the enemy has managed to funnel your attack to that 100m wide stretch of land. Makes the defense easier, assuming you have the manpower and equipment needed.

    Just plopping the stuff down and walking away leaving a few grunts behind to watch it probably won't be that effective.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Ukraine Navy may have lost their last large ship.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-destroys-ukraines-last-110045500.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_ship_Yuri_Olefirenko
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The short version is that it takes time to clear them and it funnels the enemy into a certain corridors that makes it a lot easier to defend. I'm also not sure the dragon teeth can be blasted out of the way like you could with mines. I also don't think the mine clearing charges are 100% effective.

    Basically, the Ukrainians are looking at needing to blast a path through the mine through, which lets the Russians know where they are going to be attacking, then send the mine clearing vehicles and vehicles to push the dragon teeth to the side through (which can be targetted and destroyed by Russian artillery), then the attacking vehicles have to go through, again, under fire from Russian artillery.
     
  20. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Like a Putin-kin Village? I'll he here all week. Tip your waitresses, folks
     
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  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the recent drone attacks on Moscow, here's another thread on the never ending question "What air defense doing?".

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1663967994781769730.html

    Again, the answer comes down to rampant corruption throughout the Russian military-industrial complex. One of the examples given is that the radar system associated with Russia's latest air defenses is supposed to detect and target objects as small as a football. That is obviously not happening and one of the root causes identified is low cost foreign chips that are not designed to spec.
     
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole point of the drone attack was to terrorize Russia's elite who will either be on the next flight to Switzerland or putting pressure on Putin.

    The next attack could be with cruise missiles.
     
  23. cliche_guevara

    Jun 1, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    Is Potato.
     
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  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Sounds a wee bit optimistic to believe the elite will pressure Putin into doing anything. Unless it pressures them to serve him a specially spiced cup of tea.
     
  25. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Yep.
    Russia is not the normal oligarchic situation where the leader is a creation of the elite. In Russia's case the elite is largely the creation of the leader.
     
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