2023 FIFA U-20 World Cup - USA vs. New Zealand - 5/30 1:30 PM ET (Pre-match/PBP/Post-game)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by derek750, May 29, 2023.

  1. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't know man. The team has played fluid, pretty, well executed soccer under him at every level since he arrived. I even forgot, while talking, I think w/Duke, that the 1st Rev Cup defeat was a product of Varas being hired like 48 hours before they played the first freaking game.

    When I look at the guy, everything is excellent, superficially. I don't know about the behind closed doors stuff, but the team has played beautiful soccer, complete soccer really, and dealt with all manner of difficulties and still performed well everywhere save really for that March roadie where they got stomped.

    So, man, why not hire him? I'd prefer him w/the USYNT or USMNT.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The keeper was the same, and like 4 guys on the bench for that match are starters for France now. Otherwise, there's no overlap. Of course, maybe we didn't get the A team, but it certainly feels like we did.
     
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  3. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Generally in a tournament I'm happy to face weak competition as long as possible. But I think that the gap between what we've faced so far and what we'll face next is going to hurt us. I'm gonna guess it will take us a good 20-30 minutes to get used to the tighter defensive pressure we'll be facing.
     
  4. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #354 Hexa, May 30, 2023
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    They might as well be the worst, but no one handed the US an easy draw; US earned the right to play them by placing first in their group. US has a good, very organized team with skillful players.

    Will be interesting to see how this US team reacts to stronger challenge.
     
  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #355 grandinquisitor28, May 30, 2023
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    That France was like this England though and heck Brazil A team. Brazil, and France, if they send their best are on a totally different tier from everyone save possibly Uruguay and England this cycle. I don't know who wasn't released for any of those sides except for France which we now know was basically playing a C or D team and still competitive in defeat (2 1 goal losses and a win while down a man in 3 group games).

    As for Uruguay, I haven't watched enough to have a clear vibe on Uruguay but I do think these two things tell the tale:

    Uruguay's played 12 games so far since qualifying started in major competition and they've lost twice:

    once in a tightly contested, very even match with Brazil.

    once in a game against England where England was better but Uruguay were denied a legit penalty in my view, and lost 3-2. Actually, maybe England wasn't better, I probably saw 35% of that game, maybe 40% and what I missed was how much more dangerous Uruguay was (maybe that was tactics after England went up 1-0 early, but the #'s are the #'s).

    That's it.

    All other competitive games were wins, save like a group finale draw when they had already qualified for the final stage of qualifying and drew Ecuador 1-1.

    Watching them for about 2 hours, they looked excellent, btw. Better than us, to me, but I think we're more athletic than they are, and that could be an advantage we take if we play them. I don't think they have anyone that can physically deal with Cowell for instance, or even some other guys. But they have beautiful attacking flair, and our deadly on the counter too. Their finishing, needless to say, is more clinical than ours, too.
     
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  6. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It's also worth noting we were pretty competitive in that match, but our finishing let us down, I think it probably should have been 1-1 or 2-2 at halftime. They wore us out in the second half though. And as you and others mentioned, that was basically the bulk of their A team, this squad is their C/D team.
     
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  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #357 grandinquisitor28, May 30, 2023
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    But honestly, so what?

    If I'd been asked to do power rankings before the tournament I'd have gone:

    1. France A team
    2. Brazil A Team
    3. Uruguay
    4. England team from the Euro U19's

    Massive Chasm the scale of Valles Marines

    5-13:
    Senegal, USA, Gambia, Colombia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Ecuador, Nigeria in no particular order.

    I'd probably slot the US in 7th or 8th pre tournament.

    Now, w/the tournament having played out, I'd probably put us 5th or 6th, but part of the problem is I don't know how to rank Colombia, Israel and Italy. Colombia hosted its tourney, so how good are they? And Israel and Italy have looked great and crappy in equal measure.

    So we could be as good as 5th to me, and as bad as probably 8th.

    So if we fall in the quarters, well, that's kind of like where we belong, if it's too Uruguay. Falling to Gambia would be unacceptable (even though I think they did brilliantly in qualifying and reasonably well this tournament).

    The problem with these kinds of tournaments is that when you reach the QF's, barring luck, you will have to play a top 4-6 side, and since we aren't really a top 4-6 side in the world, its' not terribly surprising we have lost tightly contested 1 goal, and or 1 penalty games over and over and over again at the U20 level, that's what happens, what bothers me is when we shouldn't have because of a choke (2003) or just stepping on a rake game (2007 against a crap Austria side nowhere near as good as teams we'd already beaten) or because of a Ramos coaching lineup error (my view of the '19 loss to a damn good Ecuador team).

    If we play Uruguay, they're simply better, to me, actually much better in comparison to our U20's than I considered the Netherlands, to our senior side 6 months ago. That isn't to say I think they'll kill us, just that in a tournament next to their country against a team that good, I expect us to lose because I've seen them play, and they're better, period, but maybe we get lucky w/some of the matchups and the athleticism angle and win anyway (assuming they beat Gambia). I rank them 4th at this tournament now that England demonstrably outplayed them last week ***(but consider, that game probably should have been 2-2, or 3-2, and England wiped the floor w/us two months ago 4-1 I think).

    ****I have to walk this back, I assumed this because when I was watching England was up 1-0, 2-1 and 3-1 if memory serves, but in looking back under the hood, I'm just wrong, it sounds like it was just much closer than that.
     
  8. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But not "The" Ukraine.
     
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  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if 2-4 are done (which I think should) then 1 happens. He could go to an MLS team but having watched Luchi up close I hope he gets some time as a US assistant and gets to coach the Olympic team and another U20 cycle. Then he should take a good MLS offer like Wolff, Nico and Luchi did. Learn as much as possible before becoming a pro head coach.
     
  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #361 grandinquisitor28, May 30, 2023
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    I've watched about 2 halves at the tournament and they play like Uruguay. Damn good on the attack, damn good on defense, cynical smart, deadly on the counter. Good finishing, and like Uruguay's of past, grinders that get results.

    Conmebol Qualifying+U20 WC they've got 2 bad results in 12 freaking games, to Brazil (0-1) and to England (2-3) and were damn competitive in both. I do think they're better than us period, but I will say this, if we brought our full A side, I think that would be a helluvagame.

    I'd also argue that like France vs England in the WC Quarters, England vs Uruguay in the Group Stage might end up being the best, and most high level attacking game of the tournament depending upon how things play out.

    The Counting Stats from it:

    Shots: Uruguay 19-12
    Sogs: Uruguay 6-3
    Corners: England 5-10
    Offsides: Uruguay 3-0

    Dangerous Attacks: Uruguay 59-40

    Plainly put, Uruguay is really, really freaking good, definitely, to me, based on the unbiased evidence, better than us period. I had them 3rd pre tournament, I'd put them 3rd or 4th now (we'd be probably 6th for me now).


    One other thing to note in reference to this:

    When I dug up U20 WC Qualifying references, I believe Uruguay qualified for every single U20 WC going back 20 years, save one. Pretty cool, and helps underline why they went from a sometimes good conmebol side, to a damn good conmebol side.

    Also a side that had the best hype video for their roster release in the history of life for the Qatar WC. Absolutely brilliant idea.
     
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MLS (ducks)!!!
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Years ago I would have been for this but now as we are passing them by I'm not. Play them in club tournaments but keep your league to yourself.
     
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  14. Agenbite

    Agenbite Member

    Jun 22, 2016
    Fair enough. I haven't looked at all the relevant data.
     
  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It has happened pretty quickly. Winning CCL. Dominating their national team. Having way more prospects moving to top leagues. Heck Canada and a lot of C America are getting better because of MLS. Sometimes something that has been around for a while and ignored while making incremental progress breaks through. MLS has broken through in N America and will now slowly take on the rest of the world. They will get kicked and beaten down ... until they don't. When is the breakthrough word moment? Who knows but it is coming - MLS is the turtle vs the rabbit.
     
  16. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
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  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #367 adam tash, May 30, 2023
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    in 3 of the 4 matches there has been....all through qualifying there was.....

    a lot of US managers have maximized the talent available - bora, arena, etc

    people should pump their breaks on annointing Varas for merely being competent - I know it is rare in us soccer - but he has a loooong way to go before he's ready for USMNT
     
  18. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I disagree.

    Ecuador was as good or better than most of the teams now left in the tournament.

    They have high expectations for their squad in this one…they expect to contend for the title.
     
  19. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    We were not in a subpar group.
     
  20. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Israelis just made the quarterfinals.
     
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  21. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interestingly enough, they'll play the winner of Brazil or Tunisia. Will be interesting to see what happens should Tunisia win, will they even play the match or will Israel get a bye all the way to the semis? I'm impressed by Israels fitness, they looked much fitter than the Uzbeks especially late on and managed to overturn a deficit against Japan late on despite being a man down
     
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  22. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Brazil is going to win this thing, they can toy with really good teams.
     
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  23. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Just play the match and we shall see what happens.

    US fans have been so indoctrinated that there is almost a fear to have hope in situations like this. Unfortunate.

    We shouldn‘t make silly proclamations like we have top ten type of talent (no, after all the idiocy during qualies and at the cup I will never let that go), or that we are some type of arrived country.

    However, we have pros who are technically and tactically sound. They are comfortable on the ball, have played against men, have played in tough matches and are savvy with regards to the world game (tactical fouling, obstructing runners, can play with an edge and not be reckless). All signs of progress. Man, do you guys really not remember how clueless and naive we were? Half the team couldn‘t trap the ball or set of triangles. We couldn‘t string a few passes together for goodness sake. We tried to hype players who barely had advanced skills in desperation and general ignorance. Sorry, this wasn‘t 20 or 30 years ago. A decade ago we were so far behind still in so, so, so many ways at this level.

    C‘mon man. This is great. This is the type of test you should want and be eager to see!

    Time to try and play the big boys the actual big boy way. I‘m excited and let the chips fall where they may.

    Friendlies also don‘t mean all that much to me. It‘s one game. Bring it on!

    I just hope nothing stops me from watching live.
     
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  24. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    While I don‘t disagree that isn‘t exactly going out on a limb.:p
     
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  25. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Yup. It helped. No doubt. Still, gotta take care of business and we did.

    Let‘s play the game!
     

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