American democracy health thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Shit!

    How much is that gonna set me back?

    And how many failures do they switch back and forth until they just give up and send the kid to wokistan?
     
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  2. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  3. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I have to disagree with you because Republicans don't want to cut the defense budget and won't reverse the tax cuts. What they do want to cut are benefits so until they're willing to cut what created the situation, it's not so much spend it's destroy the small social safety net but we're not going to increase taxes on the rich and back the IRS fight the armies of accountant that the rich have.

    I also want to add that the national debt has a lot to do with waging towards while cutting taxes which Bush the younger did
     
  4. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, we can disagree about the specifics, but it's good to see politicians actually negotiating. Of course, they are only doing it because of an absurd setup that forces them to do it or else the US economy - and in fact the world economy gets blown up. It is crazy that it takes something like that to get people to negotiate, and even more crazy that a significant number of our representatives still refuse to negotiate.

    Obviously that pressure shouldn't be there, the whole element of a threat of closing the government should not exist. But beyond that, we should be voting for representatives who are willing to work with the opposition without having the threat of economic chaos over their heads.
     
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  5. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hiw are you going to get past the Contract with America?
     
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  6. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I don’t know. Maybe it will take a very painful default. Hopefully not.
     
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  7. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Going to leave this here:

     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    "policies that are good for my family"
     
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  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    images (12).jpeg
     
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  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    What did Dems get in the negotiation?
     
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  12. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Two years without debt ceiling battles and the opportunity to see the crazy caucus eat Qevin alive, all for the little price of expanding SNAP beneficiaries.
     
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  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You think that will get them to do something other than lowering taxes? :confused:
     
  14. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I don’t know the specific details, but I’ll answer in general terms. For starters, anybody who cares about America and about the American people above partisanship gets the fact that the default was avoided. I would hope many democrats and also republicans do care about the country and are pleased that a deal looks to be done. Only extremists can be pissed at that.

    Second, specifically for democrats I think obviously being able to raise the debt limit helps the president, and the party by giving them the stability that the party in power needs to govern, by keeping the social programs that democrats care about going, and by avoiding the political and financial chaos that a default would have caused to the economy and by extension to the executive branch (which is what Trump and some hard line Trumpists in congress were hoping for.)
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    But isn't that strange saying raising the debt limit is the thing that dems got and thus republicans implicitly traded? i.e if they had not, they were blowing up the economy?

    How is that a negotiaton?
     
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  16. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    As I understand it, I don’t think it’s strange.

    It seems to me that the whole situation was designed with the goal of limiting the increase in debt, primarily for social programs, and to the extent that -at least in principle- Democrats are more likely to support expansion of debt for social programs and Republicans are more likely to oppose it, then it does become a scenario that not surprisingly enables Republicans to look for some concessions that otherwise (without the threat of closure) they would be unlikely to get, like the work requirements.
     
  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    How did we ever let them into 'Merica? Shoulda been IQ testing centuries ago.

    Also, from one of Merica's greatest philosophers:

    EDOr70rWkAApTx8.jpg
     
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  18. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    What you forget is that the work requirements just put up barriers to getting help. The GOP expanded the debt under the Trump tax cuts and won’t fix it. So why the cut help programs while letting the rich not pay their share.
     
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  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
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  21. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    ... Which they should not be able to get-- they didn't win anything like a mandate in the elections, and the debt shortfall was entirely a Republican creation. These were mostly Trump's bills that were threatened with default. Appropriately enough...

    From what I have heard, which isn't very detailed, what the Democrats got was a long term enough raise to put the next repetition of this nonsense past the next election-- which gives them the hope at least of winning by a comfortable enough margin that they can remove this mechanism which encourages minority extortion. Along with a few other undemocratic features, like filibustering.

    And they got healthcare for burn pit exposed veterans-- which should have been bipartisan from the get-go.

    And yet in the bizarro-world of 2023, it is still a huge win for Biden. If it passes, that is...
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Win-Win-Win if it passes. The Democrats would move the default deadline past the next election, increasing their chance of getting the majority that they need to achieve their agenda. The Republicans would finally have stood up to the Trumpists who wanted a default, hopefully a small step to begin taking their party back from the extremists? And most importantly the country and the world of course would win from avoiding the default and its economic implications. Plus, a default and the ensuing chaos would probably increase the odds of a Trump comeback, with all that it entails - something to be avoided.
     
  23. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I suppose it depends on how it’s set up. But I think the end-goal should be to help people become self sufficient, rather than make them dependent on the government for the long term.
     
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  24. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Depends on how bad it gets. Let’s hope we won’t find out.
     
  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    We’re so used to the current set of rules that we forget it can be redefined. Before the Great Depression it was unthinkable for government to be very involved in guaranteeing a minimal safety net. With automation becoming more and more common and with an aging population, UBI could be the way to help people and it would not mean that we have failed as a society. Quite the opposite in fact.
     
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