The thing to me for a guy like Scally or Booth is it’s not likely they are going to play a ton in the Nations League, whereas Gold Cup is a chance for them to get a lot of minutes. I don’t think this will all happen but the guys I could see go to both are Turner or either of the other two goalies go to both, Scally, Tolkin if he makes Nations League, Richards, Robinson, Zimmerman, whoever the 4th centerback is in Nations League, Acosta, Sands, LDLT, Booth, or Morris if they make Nations League, and maybe Reyna. Not all those guys will do it, but it’s possible. The guys who I think will definitely be out for Gold Cup are Jedi, Dest, Musah, McKennie, Adams, Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson, Pepi, and Balogun. The good thing with MLS guys is we’re certain to get them if we want them.
Of your list only Aaronson is the one I might quibble with. With those rumors that Leeds plan to drag him down to the championship w/them, I don't see why he'd be unavailable, the rest have a lot of volatility in the offseason or injury issues, but Aaronson appears stuck, which to me would mean he'd be available. There's more time based flexibility for the Gold Cup than last time, it ends earlier than in '21, but I get not wanting to keep players for it when they already played crazy World Cup impacted seasons.
I heard on Sirius XM yesterday that there would be little overlap between the two squads... but who knows.?.? Some of the positions are pretty easy to split up between foreign and domestic. But others are harder. Winger might be the hardest as I think most of our talent at that position plays abroad. But I will try.... Assuming 23-man rosters: NL GK: Turner, Horvath, Steffen CB: Richards, Zimmerman, Robinson, Trusty, McKenzie FB: Dest, Jedi, Scally, Reynolds M: Adams, Wes, Musah, LDLT, Booth F: CP, Weah, Balogun, Pepi, Gio, B. Aaronson GC: GK: Callender, Celentano, Slonina CB: CCV, Zimmerman, Robinson, Sands, Neal FB: Yedlin, Tolkin, Jones, Moore M: Acosta, A. Morris, Johnny, Pomykal, T. Tillman F: J. Morris, Zendejas, Gutierrez, Ferreira, Vasquez, M. Tillman
Count me in the group that would send something close to the Top 11 to Nations League and then the next group to the Gold Cup, rather than splitting a 23/23. Gold Cup should have a bias for players who simply haven't gotten the reps with the US. I think making it Reyna focused would be worthwhile. I think getting Scally run at his actual position would be worthwhile.
I'm now wondering if we're ever going to send an A team to the Gold Cup again if the Nations League final is going to immediately precede it every time, and if we're no longer prioritizing it even in the first year of the cycle.
In most years the Nations League Final will be played in the March window. For this past cycle it was the pandemic and winter World Cup that threw off the timing. But the idea is that they are played in March and that’s what will happen in 2024.
How I would build the rosters: Step 1: Berhalter's WC starters to NL ------pulisic---sarge---weah -----------------MMA*-- ----AR---Ream*--Zim---Dest ----------------Turner Exceptions: A) Adams and Ream are rehabbing. Replace with back ups Kellyn Acosta and CCV. B) Coin toss of keeper at #2. Steffen has had a lot more minutes with senior team than Horvath so I would give Horath Gold Cup for the minutes. C) Add Balogun and McKenzie Step 2: Leave WC back ups with NL team except those who are younger and expect to be candidates for 2026. That means Ferreira, Aaronson, LDLT, Gio, Scally to Gold Cup. Exception: Add Morris as a 9 to Gold Cup team because NL will have Haji Wright and Balogun as 9's in addition to Sarge whereas Gold Cup team will have Vazquez and Pepi and needs 3rd. Using Morris as a 9 was successful for Seattle. Step 3: Complete Gold Cup team. Gold Cup team so far: (I leave Gio in Germany to continue preparing for more minutes with Dortmund in 23/24 season.) I basically include the guys who I see as needing minutes. I might think Richards is better than McKenzie but I have the latter at NL because he has minutes plenty in Belgium whereas Richards doesn't have a lot of minutes with Crystal Palace. -------morris/zendejas-------pepi/vazquez-----ferreira/paredes* --------------------ldlt/aidan--------------brenden/paxten or booth --------------------------------sands/?*--------- -----------?*--------trusty--------------miles/richards---scally ---------------------------gk:--horvath *Who is the next generation 6 and lb for us? The U20's list Paredes as an attacker (Paredes' ultimate position is t.b.d. in general, thus the asterisk*). Crisostomo had a good game as dmid for LAFC in open cup v. Galaxy. 91 touches, 93% passing in a good test. fotmob stats:Los Angeles FC vs LA Galaxy - live score, predicted lineups and H2H stats. (fotmob.com) FotMob rating 7.4 Minutes played90 Goals0 Assists0 Total shots2 Accurate passes69/74 (93%) Chances created0 Attack Shot accuracy1/1 (100%) Blocked shots1 Touches91 Successful dribbles2/2 (100%) Passes into final third16 Accurate crosses0/5 (0%) Accurate long balls5/9 (56%) Corners2 Dispossessed0 Defense Tackles won0/1 (0%) Interceptions1 Recoveries8 Duels Ground duels won5/5 (100%) Aerial duels won0/1 (0%) Was fouled2 Fouls committed0
None of that months after the fact interview supports the poster's statement that Green turned down the Gold Cup call up. The WP article cleanly summed up the situation; It was Berhalter's call to make and Berhalter chose not to make the call up.
I think for the US to prioritize the Gold Cup, FIFA would have to bring back the Confederations Cup... which they should anyway, I miss it!
I'd rather have permanent US participation in the Copa than possible US participation in the Confederations.
Pretty much. It was a bad tournament when Mexico was great as it guaranteed only one truly competitive game (even though periodically we sucked and played poorly, I think 2000, 2007 (should've lost to Canada, 2015, 2019), the tournament up until recently featured just Mexico as a truly top 20 caliber team in the world and we always host them. Ergo it was and is garbage and only had value for the ridiculous trophy and the Confed Cup ticket. After Mexico started falling off, and Costa Rica, Honduras and Panama all got old at the same time, only Canada made it worth while last time (along with Mexico bringing their A side). Now? Seriously. The worst Mexico in decades, and Canada, and what else? We may not win it or even make it to the final and honestly, who cares, it's not good prep for a WC, unless Mexico and the second tier sides are younger and better like Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras a decade ago, and even then, it was just a tournament and 3 30th-50th caliber sides, plus Mexico. As far as I am concerned, the Copa America matters, the WC matters, but other than title bragging rights, the Nations League and Gold Cup are pretty ridiculous tournaments w/o a major international tournament award ticket available (Confed Cup or the rumored but nothing else Nations League of Regional Champions tournament). The Asian Cup features 4 solid to good teams, Conmebol usually features 5-6 top 30 caliber teams and genuinely competitive environments with competent third tier conmebol sides, and the Euro's features more than a dozen, the Gold Cup typically features 2. It's crap whether we win or lose.
Like it or not the GC is a mostly meaningless tournament. It has become a tool for prospects and B team caliber players to get reps. What compounds the meaninglessness of it is how late it goes in the summer, almost erasing an entire preseason for Euro players. And our A team and top players are Euro based, so…
They've changed the start and end dates of the Gold Cup this year, so instead of eating up a month of the European preseason it's only the first two weeks now.
Look I get that Nations League and especially Gold Cup aren't the best matches for the USMNT. But there isn't an alternative. Getting friendlies with top countries is just not going to happen much at all anymore. 1. The EURO competitions almost entirely rule out getting matches against EURO countires. 2. Trying to get friendlies outside FIFA windows is problematic because clubs aren't going to release players so you are not getting the high level match you want in the first place. So play CNL, Gold Cup, and hope to get invites to COPA. And once in a great great while you'll be able to get actual quality friendlies. It is what it is so make the best of it.
Many good points in the last page or so of this thread. I’ve been bored by the gold cup for a long time, as our results are always pretty similar, regardless of how good we are. Nations league being basically the same competition just makes it worse. If US Soccer wants to grow interest in the team and give us the best chance to do well in the World Cup, then they need to do all they can to get us to regularly compete in the Copa America. I will also say that I think everything the organization does should be focused on optimizing our performance in the Copa America and World Cup. I do see a lot of value in using the gold cup to integrate guys into the USMNT though. For me, I would send the starting 11 and maybe a couple important subs to nations league, but fill out most of the bench with guys who won’t be used much. Basically something like this: Turner Dest Zim MR AR Musah Wes Aaronson Weah Pepi CP bench Horvath Cannon EPB Miazga Dejuan Jones Pax Acosta LDLT Zendejas Wright Morris then, I would’ve made the gold cup squad about our best players in Europe who need more experience with the USMNT, and our best young mls players, using mls vets to fill any cracks. So Turner (one of the only guys I’d want at both events. Who cares if he shows up late to preseason with arsenal). Callender maybe. LB: Scally and Tolkin RB: Reynolds and Fossey CB: Richards Zim McKenzie Neal MF: A Morris Johnny Booth Buck McGlynn Gutierrez LW: Paredes Cowell CF: Balogun Ferreira RW: Reyna Arriola our depth at winger and midfield sucks right now. I think sending a guy like Paredes to the u20 World Cup when he might be our best alternative to CP right now is insane. I also think that guys like Buck and McGlynn could be among our best midfield options after MMA by next summer, and should be integrated now to see if they’re ready. the nations league is only two games max. There won’t be a need for a deep bench. My proposed squad should be enough to win if we play well. and the gold cup squad would definitely be good enough to make the knockout stages at least. If you look back at 2021, the guys who stood out there became regulars. if an Aidan Morris, Paredes, Reynolds, Scally, etc stands out there, then the manager should be confident enough to call them up for the next nations cycle and Copa over guys like Acosta, Jordan Morris, and Yedlin. The need for depth was maybe the biggest takeaway from the World Cup. Pushing out the old guys who weren’t good enough and seeing what younger guys can do is extremely important, and the gold cup is a great way to do that.
I mean, that helps a little but if we make the final and players take just a week break after that puts them around July 25th to report. It’s only one factor but it certainly doesn’t help any incoming transfer or anyone not firmly in their club’s XI.
As a comparison, Eng plays a Euro qualifier on June 19th. Then players break for summer, can take 2 weeks off and report for preseason right after 4th of July. A three week break and reporting puts them to around the GC quarter finals. And if you want a country on a different continent Arg has two friendlies during that same June period and nothing after. A team may or not play but either way the time off aligns with Eng. It’s just a real disadvantage.
Which is why I figured it was viable for the European guys in a way that 2021 was not despite the protestations of those who wanted more reps for the Euros that tourney. It was viable this summer, otoh, the tournaments are nearly back to back and the players are coming off incredibly long seasons with a winter world cup. I get why the fed/coach don't want to run everybody into the ground for a month, and then let the players have like 1-2 weeks off before they go back to their clubs, when you think about it that way, you understand why we'll be running out two different sides. There's a week off between the Nations League Final and the start of the Gold Cup, the Gold Cup final is basically July 16th. Ergo, players will be in a US camp, if they played for both tournaments from probably around June 5th or 6th through mid July. So, as mentioned, it doesn't work, period. Even w/the more friendly schedule change. Nations League is utter bull---- unless they provide a pay off for teams w/a Championship of confederations. Even UEFA sides were basically lollygaging it last summer.
This was more true in the past but on average the USMNT took matches more seriously than other teams. This was most noticeable in friendlies away from major competitions. I do believe that attitude carried over as a general culture and served us well. Seeing as other teams have grown to take things more seriously I see no reason to move in the other direction. In fact I think it would be harmful. It’s an elitist, falsely superior attitude that catches up with a team when they get punched in the face. That said I am all for experimenting, especially early in a cycle. How those things coexist is that the players that come in have to be held to a high standard and we have to go for it. The GC is a better opportunity to conduct a well designed experiment. The NL experiment should be “how well does Balogun gel with the A team.”
Ultimately, the US cannot spend 99% of its time playing Central American and Caribbean countries if it wants to become an elite team. USSF will need to do something to address the lack of matches against elite opponents. Getting punched and kicked to death on mud patches in Central America and the Carribbean is a waste of the USA's time.
Ok nobody disagrees with that. But not a single truly workable suggestion has been made either. Lobby FIFA to get rid of all Nations Leagues, Euros, COPA America? Seriously its so easy to say but just what is the solution? This has been pounded to death on here for a long time and nobody has any kind of real answer.
We need to push to become permanent participants in Copa America. It seems very realistic to me, too. Adding us and presumably Mexico and Canada would add a substantial amount of tv money for conmebol teams. They also only have 10 members, so adding teams would probably make it easier to format the tournament. I’m sure that plenty of folks in South America wouldn’t like it, but it is called “Copa America”, so adding North American teams makes plenty of sense.
USA, Canada, and Mexico should also submit a joint proposal to join CONMEBOL. Let Central America and the Caribbean punch and kick each other to death like Street Fighter 2 while North America gets to play real competition.