Post-match: The Post Presidency :: Trump Faces The Music Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Did anyone clap?
     
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  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    i think these people would eat the contents of trumps nappy by the spoonful if he demanded it. How could you have that little self respect?
     
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  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    No I'm not assuming that at all. At least not that it is a good thing-- but it is normal.

    We were discussing matters of US law, not Yemeni. And as previously mentioned no one even knew he was there.

    And "only rogue nations do that" is naive in the extreme; that or the definition of "rogue nations" includes just about every nation with the resources to so do. History is rife with examples.

    We're not going to improve the world any by pretending we already have. Gotta admit reality in order to change it.
     
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  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    They are all hopeless.
     
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  5. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Drones & Yemen. I swear I'm having a friggin flashback I tell ya.
     
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  6. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a classic. And a good lesson for why we shouldn't respond to trolls. We're talking about drones and Yemen instead of what we're bringing to the Trump arrest party on Tuesday.
     
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  7. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's Spring Break, so I am not teaching Tuesday.

    I work as an election official for the local election until 1:00 or 2:00 (Wisconsin Supreme Court), so I should be home in time for the festivities.

    Again, I am not happy at all that a former president is being arraigned.

    However, I am thrilled that a career criminal is facing justice.
     
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  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  9. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    LOL!
     
  10. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. Exactly.
     
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  11. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Lyndon LaRouche ran for president from prison.
     
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  12. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Well, I imagine he ran a couple of times after he died, as well

    Eugene V Debs ran for President while in prison.
     
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  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not so much recently, though. More recently it only tends to be rogue states, but...
    Yeah, that!

    it's no accident that people are attempting to divert us with stuff where we have relatively minor disagreements, (relative to the world's more powerful democracy becoming a fascist state, anyway, where that sort of thing would become commonplace), when dth is about to get clobbered.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I wish the media would give more space to the people who have been correct all along about GOP fascism and deprioritise those who have been consistently wrong

     
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  15. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The last sentence of the second tweet is the crux of the matter—it’s axiomatic among the punditocracy that Republicans and conservatives in general have no agency.
     
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  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This was the show I watched recently that reminded me of how fragile democracy is and how ineffective the law and 'politics as usual' can be when trying to defeat it...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00084tb/rise-of-the-nazis-series-1-1-politics

    At about 19 mins it talks about how Hitler portrayed himself as a 'man of the people' and not part of the elite and how some people tried to fight him in the courts...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Litten

    ...

    Cross-examination of Hitler[edit]
    In May 1931, Litten summoned Adolf Hitler to testify in the Tanzpalast Eden Trial, a court case involving two workers stabbed by four SA men. Litten cross examined Hitler for three hours, exposing many points of contradiction and proving that Hitler had exhorted the SA to embark on a systematic campaign of violence against the Nazis' enemies. That was crucial because, to appeal to middle class voters, Hitler was trying to pose as a conventional politician and maintained that the activities of the Nazi Party were "strictly legal".

    Though a judge eventually halted Litten's questioning, thereby saving Hitler from further damning exposure, newspapers reported on the trial in detail and Hitler was investigated for perjury that summer. Although he survived that inquiry intact, he was rattled by the experience.[2][10][11]

    The thing that struck me watching that wasn't just the fact of what happened with Litten... it was the glowing admiration of Baroness Helena Kennedy, QC who, (for those that don't know), is a liberal icon of left wing intellectual politics in the UK.

    It was like the apparent 'victory' in a court case about 4 nazis who attacked a communist meeting was somehow the denouement for Hitler and meant he was defeated, politically but, as this shows, unless you actually address the political issues directly, an apparent 'win' in court means nothing...

    ...

    “The climax comes in an exchange over a pamphlet written by… Goebbels… a quick guide to Nazi ideology for new party recruits. It includes the promise that if the Nazis cannot come to power through elections, ‘then we will make revolution! Then we will chase the parliament to the devil and found the state on the basis of German fists and German brains!’

    If Hitler’s party is legal, Litten wants to know, how could such a thing… be published by the party’s official publisher?... Hitler evades the question by denying that the party ever approved the pamphlet. Then, over the lunch break, Litten learns that the pamphlet is still being sold at Goebbel’s meetings and at all party bookstores. Can Hitler explain this? Hitler cannot. He roars with helpless, inarticulate rage. Litten calmly presses him for an answer.

    Then the judge, Kurt Ohnesorge, throws Hitler a lifeline… ‘This has nothing to do with this trial,’ he says, disallowing further questioning. Hitler is shaken and embarrassed. But he is saved.” (Hett, Democracy, p. 37).

    From a legal perspective, given the matters in issue in the trial and the form of questions posed, there was probably merit in this interruption—though we are left to wonder what larger victory might have been won by Litten, and what level of blow might have been sustained by the party, had an answer been compelled.

    That last part strikes me as the nub of the issue.

    Unless, 1), The lies of Fox News, (which contradict observable reality and perform the same function as Goebbels lies in making voters believe there are no such things as facts), 2) The gerrymandering of the GOP across the USA and, 3), The fact that elections can be 'bought' by rich political donors, are challenged, you're still in danger of being taken over by fascism.

    Success in this case won't change that as stuff about campaign finance laws and paying off hookers will likely be viewed a 'small potatoes' by most voters.

    He, (and the people and organisations that support him), have to be taken down by a whole RAFT of matters, both legal and political, before you'll be in the clear.

    You should probably start with the blatant gerrymandering and anti-vote laws being pushed in many US states by the GOP and the fact that, AFAIK, these are matters handled by the state probably needs to be challenged head-on, as does the 'citizens united' ruling and many other matters.
     
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  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That WP article is exactly my thinking as well. The fact that dth paid a hooker and dodged some campaign finance laws, whilst it would be politically telling in a 'normal' political system, (or time), is probably irrelevant in the long run. It's the reaction to it from one of the major political parties and their backers like the Koch's that are the real danger here.
     
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  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    One of the replies...



    Yep!
     
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  19. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, but sometimes walking into a foreign country and arresting somebody who threatens the nation is not a viable option.
     
  20. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    fixed, slightly.

    If BigSoccer P&CE did that for posters, I wouldn't be able to work. I'd be here all the time!
     
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  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    If only there was a constitutional process the GOP could have used to prevent a criminal former president running again and clearing the way for new candidates?!
     
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  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    If he'd been perpwalked in during Obama's term, he'd have been acquitted
     
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  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Agreed

    Democracy can't work very well in a 2 party system where one goes semi-fascist
     
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  24. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    So, we should just go into that country and kill them?
    That does not seem very viable or desirable.

    Also, sometimes, bad people get away with the bad deeds they commit. That happens even with a criminal justice system.

    By the way, there are, of course, times when killing a suspect may be necessary. The emphasis should be on "necessary."
     
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  25. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Perhaps (although I doubt it).

    Again, sometimes bad people get away with their bad deeds.
     
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