Eleven How much effort would it be to pare that list down as suggested to those called into to U20s? I applaud your work but I mean there are 10 keepers on there for instance. So add in all the similar aged keepers that aren't dual nats and you have oodles of keepers of which all but a handful will never get into the picture. Maybe some criteria like: U20 call ups First team minutes with top 20 world wide leagues Second team minutes for clubs in the Big 5 If you don't have one of those attributes then, to me, you are too far down the list to follow. And of course the list changes as players gain one of these attributes. But seriously do we really care about 10 keepers that are dual nats on top of all those who are only US? Just too many.
If I’m following you, then, I would pay attention to the birth years. Keepers 2003s and younger, who are listed as provisionally cap-tied to USA, have played for the US youth teams, at least. Forgive me, if I missed it if you were trying to suggest something else.
Is it me or do I feel like the U17-U20 will not really have many players that will play for the senior team? Outside a couple of players like kevin pradas and maybe Keyrol Figueroa there's not an elite player. U17 are still too young but there's not one that stand out maybe diego kochen. We have not seen many great U17 players. I feel like th U13-U16 are were there's some great or elite player but they are still young.
The flip side to that is, of course, how players can breakout out of nowhere. I like the longer list because it provides such a broad perspective on the player pool. The players we tend to really hype up are not usually the ones that end up on the full senior team, right? It’s more often someone who breakouts and sort of surprises folks.
Plenty of good players. Adrian Gill is highly touted in la masia. Jalen Neal has started 3/4 games for LA as a 19 year old center back. Joshua Wynder has tons of starts for Louisville and he’s only 17. If you want a more in depth perspective ask around in the youth boards.
Certainly but that is the point of a fluid list. Names can and should come and go as their play dictates.
On the other hand, a comprehensive list allows the reader to visualize the drop off in the player depth on their own. When we say, who’s next? Because so and so isn’t getting it done. We have to look at who’s in line to challenge that player. Sometimes, we ask for a player to be dropped, but the player pool reveals that doing so would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. But other times, it reveals that we do have legitimate competition at spots.
Close. What I am suggesting is several criteria. If a player meets any of them then they are on the list. 1. Played for a US youth team. But I would probably only start at say U17 and up. U15s and 16s are to far down the list for me. 2. Played minutes for a 1st Division team in say top 20 leagues in the world. 3. Played minutes for a 2nd Division team in a top 5 league (For example playing for Barca 2). If a player meets any of these three criteria then they would make the list. And I would make the list fluid. For example, lets say a kid gets called in to U17. He gets on the list. Then down the road he does not get called in to U18 or 19 then I take him off the list. Gets called in further down the road to U20 ok then back on the list. The point is that I'd like to see this list be something that tracks players with some reasonable expectation of a future call up to the senior team.
I can give it some thought on how I can structure that, but that said, it sounds like you have a good idea of your own on how to design a list. If it helps, you’re welcome to borrow from my list to create what you’re talking about. Or, you could even PM me and we can work on it together. I definitely don’t want to claim to be the only one who can create a list. And I am always willing to learn new ways to improve upon things.
Don't get me wrong there will be good players and maybe a few great players. I feel like U13-U16 has a few elite players like Manu Romero and Tyler Meiser if they ever play for the USMNT. U17-U20 doesn't have those types of players.
AUF se contactó con Manuel Romero (2009) para que juegue el Sudamericano U15 con Uruguay.El lateral zurdo del Real Madrid acumula 12 goles y 21 asistencias (!) en 21 partidos esta temporada.Puede jugar por EEUU, España o Uruguay. pic.twitter.com/JiM0ZleVTy— Santiago (@SantiSosa22) March 31, 2023 Make that two dual-nat left backs
Balogun with an assist today... 1642585990823829509 is not a valid tweet id 1642580134111608833 is not a valid tweet id
The U15 level isn't even provisionally cap-tying. And to be fair, most of these U15 dual-nationals that folks talk about endlessly on these boards don't become senior adult professionals worth worrying about. But that doesn't prevent people from worrying out about how some 14 year old they'd never heard of before yesterday accepted a callup to Uruguay U15s.
The USSF keeps their "list" and has since the times of Thomas Rongen. So we can keep a list too. And yes, it can be very fluid as players bubble up and down the pool. We often get excited about a young player, and then he disappears. At the younger ages we keep an eye on players with a potential USMNT ceiling. And since there's a wide variance of outcomes for young players, that's a big group. And once in a blue moon there will be a later bloomer. Alex Zendejas was on everybody's dual national list 6 years ago. He was the most capped U17 during his cycle, and one of our most capped U17s ever. Then he fell off the radar for years after being sold from FCD to Chivas. Then a bit of a journeyman existence started. For a bit he was even a role player in the Mexican second division. Then, he just zoomed back onto our radars as a 25 year old at Club America. [So much so that Mexico got to him first, but effed it up.] I think we all understand that we can't keep track of every dual-national. Your list will get totally unwieldy. You'll have to formulate a cut-off in your own mind. Maybe high profile U17s called up by the US or another nation.
We don't have that pull that those countries have. Even Mexico has more pull than the USA. If we can't get a good prospect like luca koleosho what makes you think we could get Maximo Carrizo and many more? We need to start at a earlier age.
We do. Have you checked out our U15s, U16s, U17s, etc.? They're all dual-nationals. Its amazing you think we don't have the "pull" that Mexico does when we just beat them out for Ricardo Pepi, Jonathan Gomez, Alex Zendejas, and others. Brandon Vazquez too, although I'm not sure how hard Mexcio was trying to recruit him. They've gotten some like Efrain Alvarez, David Ochoa and Julian Araujo. That's the nature of the deal. We'll win some and lose some when it comes to Mexico dual-nationals. But I'll take our crop over theirs any day of the week. Currently on our U20s Mauricio Cuevas, Obed Vargas, Cade Cowell, Diego Luna, Danny Leyva, Alejandro Alvarado, Jonathan Gomez, Nico Carrera, Brian Gutierrez, and others are all Mexico eligible. But somehow we don't have pull amongst Mexico dual-nationals. Absolute, utter hogwash. Also a true fact: Zero Mexican-American dual-nationals made the US or Mexico World Cup rosters. Zero. Let me repeat. Zero. Can we not go overboard on Luca Koleosho? He might make our U20 team as a winger, but that's not a certainty. Cuz he'd have to displace a guy like Kevin Paredes or Paxten Aaronson. Or Caden Clark, who's getting good reviews at Leipzig. There are good MLS players like Niko Tsakiris (dual national), Cade Cowell (dual national), and others also in the competition. Dante Sealy (dual national on loan at PSV) will not make the squad. Even so, Anthony Hudson spoke about Luca Koleosho at the last camp. We know that we've been in communication with him. Seriously............we're about to get Balogun. And people are concerned that we might lose Koleosho? I don't get it.
The way Varas spoke about him I'm fairly certain Koleosho would make the U20 team if he was on board. I think in his case I don't we initially realized what level of prospect he was and slow played him a bit and it probably wasn't clear on his end at first that he was really a core player for the U20s. The only camp we called him into was one in between windows which was mostly for non core guys we wanted to take a look at. That left an opening for other countries, while he continued to progress with his club team in a very positive way. We definitely picked things up on our end though and he had conversations with members of the senior team coaching staff (though Varas didn't clarify as to whether that was Hudson or not). But compare that to England where Southgate apparently can't be bothered to have a conversation with Balogun. In the end it's clear he prefers Italy for the time being. As Varas said we made it pretty clear how much we wanted him in the program, but you sort of also have to focus on the guys who want to play for the US. Obviously we should continue to monitor his progress and see if we should try again at the Olympic level or the senior team level. He could end up be a really good player or this could be the farthest his career will go. All we can do is stay in contact and try again down the line.
I’m scared that we might lose players like Maximo carrizo, luca koleosho, cole campbell, tyler Meiser, Christian mcfarlane, Manuel Romero, and many more. I don’t know how much connection USSF has with those players. Based on one video USSF does not have a good connection with Carrizo and that could be true with most of those players. Some of them could be good enough for USMNT or they might play for their favorite option. People have to remember that players like Musah, Zendejas Balogun (IF he chooses the USMNT), Pepi, malik Tillman, and many more choose the USMNT over any other country because they were not going to be good enough for those countries or Mexico sucks at Dual nats. The US is 2nd favorite for many players. We also have to understand that the USMNT does not have that pull that can get players like Meiser
I think the one thing about the US is that we are generally very good at being in contact with dual nationals. A lot of the guys you have mentioned have been in camps and will be in camps in the future. The other thing you have to realize is our teams in general are filled with tons of dual nationals. So no matter what we do we are going to have some off. Myself I trust the track record of the program with dual nationals and feel confident we are in contact as needed. Just because we don’t have insight into what’s happening, doesn’t mean that bad things are happening.
We do not suck with dual nationals at the youth level. The U17 and U20 teams are filled with nothing but dual nationals.