2023 USL/NWSL/USOC/MLS Next Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by gaolin, Mar 7, 2023.

  1. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There’s a good reason why we use the acronym MBB (Men Behaving Badly) when discussing men’s amateur soccer. :)
     
  2. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh that second yellow for the NC Fusion is just amazing, magnificent really.

    First caution in the 90+4 for running through a defender after being dispossessed near goal, followed by blasting the ball away as the whistle is blowing. His team is already down a man at this point. Game is 2-2.

    Then in the 116th, with 4 minutes and change left to hold on while down a man, his team clears the ball out of play from their own penalty area, directly in front of the opponent's technical area. He runs up to the ball kid demanding the ball when two opponents are nearby ready to take their rightful throw in. Once he gets it, he runs away from them for about 5-10 yards before casually tossing the ball over his shoulder. He proceeds to be dumbfounded about receiving the caution, and even moreso when the red comes out. You couldn't write that script.

    That's a wonderful example of the wild stuff that happens in these early round US Open Cup matches. A unique kind of challenge that presents scenarios you don't see much of elsewhere.
     
  3. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    That’s the one I just talked about lol

    here’s another good one

    https://www.youtube.com/live/HdkBqUnk2gs?feature=share

    Cautions 78 and 79 for scuffing up the PK spot then taking off the shirt lol
     
  4. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    #54 soccerref69420, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
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  5. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a good learning example for aspiring referees on the various types of management a referee needs to have tools to deal with at the higher level. This was about as obvious of a PK decision as it gets...but there was still loads of subsequent management that needed to occur. The administration of penalty kicks is not simple or easy anymore.

    These days, referees need to be able to deal with:
    • Dissent following penalty decisions, and possibly identification of mobbing behavior;
    • Defenders messing with the penalty spot (likely while the ref is distracted giving an explanation), and potentially related UB or VC;
    • The goalkeeper off their line to create delays and play mental games with the penalty kick taker, and potentially related UB or VC;
    • Defenders trying to identify and talk trash to the penalty kick taker;
    • Encroachment by one or both teams;
    • Goalkeeper remaining on their line.
     
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  6. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    sounds like a nice 4-5 caution PK
     
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  7. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I’ve said it before on here but I think the IFAB really needs to do something when it comes to defenders scuffing up the penalty mark on grass fields. It’s a tactic that is becoming increasingly popular and farcical. A yellow card is often well worth the price for potentially causing your opponent to miss a goal. No amount of “the referee needs to manage it with his personality” is going to stop it, because these players are professions and they know it’s worth it.

    I don’t know what the change can be, though. I once suggested making this act a red card instead of a yellow, that would stop most of it real fast, though at the hazard of discouraging refs from making such a call. Maybe there’s some solution involving moving the kick to another spot. I think ultimately there’s not much that can be done if refereeing continues to be unwilling to show multiple cards in these scenarios
    or continues to be afraid of sending players off.
     
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  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The problem with moving things from yellow to red is that if an R isn't likely to give the yellow, he is even less likely to give the red. Like many things, this goes down to competitions actually deciding they care. Announcing before the season that any defender scuffing with the PK mark at a game will get a suspension (whether or not sanctioned by the referee during the match) and the club fined would actually be a deterrent. But leagues don't seem to care enough to take steps to stop the behavior, and even if refs are willing to caution, someone is going to take that one for the team if they think it will impact the shooter.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yellow + 1 yard closer?

    EDIT: or the choice to move it 1 yard in any direction. I can see the scuffing also affecting a run-up if you only get to go forward.
     
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  10. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Kicker gets to move it anywhere between the spot and the 6
     
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  11. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    3 games today

    Cleveland/Lionsbridge
    7 YCs with a 2CT

    Jacksonville/Miami
    8 YCs with a 2CT

    Hartford/Lansdowne
    7 YCs
     
  12. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I like this idea.
     
  13. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I watched through all of the YC/RC incidents in these games. These USOC games so far have almost brought a tear to my eye. Center refs not putting up with any crap and giving deserved yellows rather than trying to "manage" them away. Going back to give yellows after playing advantage or waiting and seeing then calling the foul + YC back. I feel like these things are keeping these games fully in control.

    Obviously I'm not watching the full games to see how the referee's entire body of work throughout the game is, but from the YC/RC aspect, I give these guys
    upload_2023-3-23_21-53-50.png

    I wonder if any female referees will be doing any of these games.
     
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  14. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    There have been already. I know for sure Alexandra Billeter had one on Wednesday, and maybe someone else as well.
     
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  15. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    For what it's worth. While the PRO2 refs are working these USL games, I just received word that they are not working under a CBA at this time.
     
  16. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    No CBA means no punishment for poor performance
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I'm not sure why you think that. While the CBA will typically set out criteria, that typically limits the power of the employer to discipline more than enhance it. Without the CBA, poor performing contractors can easily be given no further assignments in the event of poor performance.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that novel theory would be news to all the people who were dropped from MLS duty from 1996 through 2012. Some of them after one match.
     
  19. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I accidentally added “no” in there because I’m an idiot. Should have said “punishment for poor performance”, meaning these guys don’t really have any recourse to protect themselves for mistakes. Seems like a Tough place to put yourself in especially with these crazy USOC matches
     
  20. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd love to see the stats on that.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Figuring out who was dropped versus who just sort of faded out might be a challenge. But @ManiacalClown should have the stats handy on who did only one middle and never any more (I don't think it's that high... but the "who did a few games and that was there one chance" category is pretty high).
     
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  22. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ya as soon as I wrote that I was thinking it would be interesting to see who did 5 or less. Probably a long list.
     
  23. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    One thing that I didn’t think about as far as growing pains for NWSL VAR goes is he quality of the Video Operators. They’re probably a whole new staff, too. On Inside Video Review this week, their work is noticeably less smooth than what we are used to, and it seemed like JC was doing some teaching on the fly.
     
  24. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. Hawkeye hired a bunch of local staff in Atlanta area. With so many games occurring at the same time you have a lot of brand new replay operators. Most of them are all referees.
     
  25. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Sad, Unfortunate Tale of Fernando Galvan
     

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