Planning for Spring & Summer 2023 Rosters

So it was hard to get a sense of his quality with over 2,000 mins in the Bundesliga and over 1,000 in the 2nd Bund, but 362 mins with LAFC and the MLS crew is on board?

You know who is really hard to get a sense of their quality? MLS players. You know who really does a poor job assessing the quality of MLS players? MLS fans. They over rate every single MLS player. One would think after being repeatedly wrong on players they would STFU. Not a chance.

Jesus Ferreira reinforced to me that there are no amount of numbers in MLS that justify inclusion in the USMNT. Never met the eye test and repeatedly didn't finish chances. I finding it harder and harder to figure out what value there is in the MLS regular season. The games are worthless and not even useful to scout players.

You have repeatedly claimed that Berhalter didn't have an MLS bias, but acknowledge it is tough to get called in. I find so weird for a group of people to claim there is a bias against MLS players and then when they are called in droves, they suck. These same people claim there isnt a bias for MLS players, but the when euro based guys like de la Torre finally get a shot it is clear they are so much better than the guys you defended for years.

 

So it was hard to get a sense of his quality with over 2,000 mins in the Bundesliga and over 1,000 in the 2nd Bund, but 362 mins with LAFC and the MLS crew is on board?

You know who is really hard to get a sense of their quality? MLS players. You know who really does a poor job assessing the quality of MLS players? MLS fans. They over rate every single MLS player. One would think after being repeatedly wrong on players they would STFU. Not a chance.

Jesus Ferreira reinforced to me that there are no amount of numbers in MLS that justify inclusion in the USMNT. Never met the eye test and repeatedly didn't finish chances. I finding it harder and harder to figure out what value there is in the MLS regular season. The games are worthless and not even useful to scout players.

You have repeatedly claimed that Berhalter didn't have an MLS bias, but acknowledge it is tough to get called in. I find so weird for a group of people to claim there is a bias against MLS players and then when they are called in droves, they suck. These same people claim there isnt a bias for MLS players, but the when euro based guys like de la Torre finally get a shot it is clear they are so much better than the guys you defended for years.

 

It is malpractice to not look at players who might help when the players repeatedly called in are known to not be up to it.

 

You know no one is saying that he's a surefire national team guy. Just that he should get a look during a friendly that is outside the FIFA window. And as I said I don't think you can take alot of way from his Bundesliga minutes given how bad his team was and that they were getting shelled on such a constant basis. They weren't just a team fighting relegation, but one that was one of the worst teams in the Bundesliga in recent memory.

Personally I prefer to judge players individually and based off watching them play, as opposed to just looking at what league they play in and making a snap judgement off that.

 

Sports Illustrated with a good article on planning for the summer

https://www.si.com/soccer/2023/03/30/nations-league-gold-cup-summer-concacaf-usmnt-canada-mexico

 

Yeah, I prefer to judge players as well instead of relying the stats and other mumbo jumbo. However, where a player plays factors into that.
You and Berhalter's inability to actually judge players in Europe is the issue. The other issue is success in the USMNT should make everyone doubtful MLS performances will translate.

What has been clear on Tillman for years is that he is ahead of the MLS midfielders that were called in terms of technical ability and athleticism. I have no idea if the guy can help the USMNT, but he has never gotten a shot while being at least at the same level and most likely ahead of the guys Berhalter gave over 5,000 mins. I dont think you put much effort into judging players like him and dismissing being a regular in the Bundesliga seems nuts when the guys Berhalter used would never survive at that level.

 

At the World Cup the primary guys who played at the 8 across the 4 games were McKennie, Musah, and Aaronson. All three have shown the ability to survive at that level.

But you can't also just look at the league a player plays in an assume they can play for the USMNT. Jordan Pefok also plays in the Bundesliga, but I don't think he should have been on the USMNT roster for the World Cup. Even his own mother doesn't think he should have been there.

Tillman is interesting because he plays a position of need where we very much lack depth. If he played a different position I'd probably be less interested.

Most notably however there was not one player who played 5,000 minutes under Berhalter. That would require you to be capped in 56 games and go 90 in 55 of them. Berhalter coached a total 56 games for the USMNT and there not a single player who played in all 56.

 

Berhalter repeatedly played Lletget, Roldqn, and Acosta at the 8 over the whole cycle. Why?

Pefok would have been a better choice than Ferreria. If Berhalter wouldn't have wasted minutes on players never going to make the team, Pefok could have gotten more minutes to show whether he belonged or not.

Tillman plays any of the front 5 spots. Not sure what we gained with Roldan at the WC, but very likely that we will be wishing Tillman had WC experience over the next few years.

Neat math. Lletget, Roldan and Acosta combined for over 5,000 minutes. That is at least 3,000 mins that could have gone to searching for actual depth instead of focusing on "culture". There were many more wasted minutes that could have gone to deserving players that could have improved the team.

 

Yeah, but she's a lot tougher grader than you.

 

Roldan barely played the last two years. Lletget hasn't played for the national team since October of 2021. Acosta has played some minutes at the 8 yes. But that's a pretty small thing to hang your hat on.

And I wouldn't have taken Ferreria, but I would have taken Pepi instead of Pefok. And Pepi is the one not in a top 5 league. I would have had Vazquez ahead of Pefok as well. My general view is our three best strikers at the time were Sargent, Pepi, and Vazquez. If Balogun were to commit he obviously replaces Vazquez in the top 3.

 

Its amazing how much people argue about the fringes of the roster.
These MLS guys people whine incessantly about tend to not start (and barely play) when the games matter.

Acosta is the guy who had played a major role in the squad. He broke the USMNT record for most caps in a calendar year in 2021. He played in all of the Gold Cup games and all of the Nations League games. Also played in all-but-one WCQer. Of course, people should go look at the USMNT's record in games that Acosta started in midfield.

....................but when Adams is healthy, Acosta doesn't play much. And we'll see if somebody rises up to challenge him as Adams' backup. Berhalter was well aware of Acosta's limitations.

 

All three were never good enough. All three played way more than they should have and were kept around longer than they should have. In the end what value did they provide the team because they blocked others from getting shots.

If Roldan didn't play the last 2 years, then why was he on every roster?

Lletget was the only one of the three he actually discarded. He was a mysterious one who was in the initial group but didn't go to the GC. He was immediately back in the side and then was a regular for 2020 and most of 2021. During that period he played in 20 of 22 games, starting 15. Why would a fringe player get that many minutes?

Acosta is just as mysterious. On the outside until after lock down and then played in 28 out of 29 games though WCQ. He started 16 out of those 28 games. Does that sound like a fringe player whomis only there as an emergency dmid replacement.

Not sure how you look at all these minutes used on these guys and acknowledge it was Berhalter's poor preparation that led to him running the midfield into the ground at the WC. What is also clear, none of these players had the technical ability to help us "disorient the opponents with the ball" or the athleticism to press nonstop. There selection was baffling and severely hurt the team.

 

And what was the USMNT's record in those games?

Nobody is arguing about Acosta's relative strengths and weaknesses. The question is who we're starting instead. The pool of 6s was very weak behind Adams. And some of those backups went thru significant injury issues. And of course Adams himself missed significant time (as he is going to now). When the cycle started our 6s were guys like Yueill, Trapp, and the end of Bradley.

Everybody consistently whines about the 6s we use other than Adams. But when we look at their suggestions in 2021, they're wacked out. They'd demand that we take a look at Chris Cappis or somebody. Or put Gianluca Busio there, who has disappeared. The list goes on.

Acosta's primary skill-set was being consistently fit and available in 2021 and 2022 while his competition for playing time wasn't.

Now that we have a new cycle started we've been looking at new guys.

 

Berhalter had no clue of his limitations. Why does a fringe player have the record for most caps in a year? If it was because Adams was hurt, why weren't other players tried at dmid? Adams of course played 10 games in 2021 so that wasn't the only reason. Wait, Acosta was actually used as an 8 quite a bit. He started 5 games in 2022 and 4 of them were as an 8 and Adams was the 6 in three of them. He subbed on twice at the WC as an 8.

 

Who cares what our record was against crap teams. When things mattered, he wasnt trusted. "Good enough for concacaf" may get you some useless trophies, but it prevents building a team that can actually compete at the WC.

When you put it like that, why would anyone question this coaches selections. I mean he tried, Trapp, Yeuill, and Bradley at the 6 and then settled on Acosta. That definitely sounds like a guy who maximized the pool.

 

“who cares if we’re winning? The big bad mean coach used players I don’t like!!!” Solid logic bro lol

 

Who are you proposing should’ve been used instead, given what was known at the time (and not using the benefit of hindsight)?

 

The coach used players for 3.75 years that he was afraid to play at the WC. Part of his job is to always be building the team to compete at the WC. It is the second highest priority after qualifying for the WC yet Berhalter never got the team prepared.

Yes, I dont mind losing if it makes us better down the road and winning while not building anything is worthless.

 

There should have been at least one extra midfielder in every camp. When the guys on the roster aren't good enough, the coach has to look for alternatives. Some guys who could have been considered include Morales, Green, T Tillman, etc. Mckennie and Musah could have been tried as a 6. Reyna, Aaronson, CP, etc could have been tried in midfield.

More time could have also been spent on two central mid systems.

 

If only we had played Julian Green at the 6 all our problems would have been fixed. Brilliant idea, can't believe I missed it.

Etc at the 6 is the new Kante I'm told.

 

This level of thinking is right up there with "what is the big deal about wasting the first year of the cycle trying to teach players that aren't good enough a system that won't work?". You ********ing morons are as rigid in your thinking as Berhalter. Here is an idea for you. If the ideal "player profile" isn't there, then change how the team lines up or try the next best option in the team instead of jamming a lesser player in there. It is all in my last post if you read it.

I was told many times that Green was about as good as Lletget. One got one camp and zero minutes and the other 28 caps and over 1,700 mins. No idea if Green could help the team, but Berhalter helped make clear Lletger couldn't.

 

Lol at those names. Green and Morales showed enough with the USMNT to make it clear that they weren’t the answer, and Tillman was completely undeserving of a call up as a squad player for greuther furth.

this is why it’s impossible to take arguments like this seriously. You rant and rave about how bad Berhalter’s decisions were, then propose alternatives that have huge flaws of their own. The bottom line is that our midfield depth was poor last cycle. Acosta, Lletget, Green, etc were not good options for quality competition at the WC. The mls guys berhalter used did what any reasonable fan would expect them too: get the job done against concacaf competition, but not much more than that. You’re blaming berhalter for what we’re clearly issues with the player pool.

 

I think you guys are absolute ********ing morons. I also think you are trolls so possibly not as dumb as you come off.

Pretty amazing you know those guys aren't better options by seeing one of them in one game. Tillman was just as if not more deserving than every single MLS player.

BTW, those names were just off the top of my head and pretty much irrelevant to the argument that there is no reason to call players repeatedly when it known that the desire is to replace them. An MLS fans opinion on foreign based players is of no use to me. You guys gave the same response to de la Torre and CCV.

I am blaming Berhalter for not trying to solve those issues with the pool.

 

These people don't deserve my respect. They have never shown any to anybody who doesn't agree with them.