Yeah, I think things are so volatile at this age that there will be still be some guys who seem "meh" who will breakout when they get bigger, faster, have something "click" for them in reading the game, etc. Even from U20 qualifying, I thought Edelman was meh with the U20s, but then looked very good for RBNY down the stretch in MLS. Not that Edelman is the next Tyler Adams, but he went from pretty unremarkable at the U20 level to "maybe he should get a look as a backup CM with the senior team in the next year or so" in a few months. I expect we'll see something similar with a few of these U17s.
Does it concern anyone that we don’t have a Pulisic or Gio Reyna level talent for at least 7 years? Assuming you consider Sullivan to be that. How does that even happen with a country as big as ours and with the huge growth of our academy system? You look at tiny countries like Portugal and Uruguay, and they produce multiple players like this each generation. Doesn’t make sense. I know our best athletes don’t play soccer but the “best athletes” of Uruguay and Portugal are not the same type of athletes we have playing football and basketball
There's a lot of discussion across many threads on this board, but most recently in this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/at-what-age-would-we-recognize-a-generational-talent.2124608/ I struggle to be concerned. While I think there's probably some aspects of our development system that reduce the chances of truly elite players, I think that a) a lot of those things are big, long term, cultural changes and b) elite players are essentially outliers and so given to some level uncontrolled variance. Other things to note: as that thread goes into, it's only a few positions that tend to show particularly early. So many people are trying to judge CBs at 16 or strikers at 17, but that's not often where those positions actually make the leap. I mean, we basically had the #1/2 GK prospect in the world according to some people -- is that not Reyna/Pulisic level? I'd also note that we're still in the infancy of academy growth. There's a reason so many of our players came through FC Dallas and it has more to do with others not focusing on it as it does with FC Dallas being superior. I'm sure there's a lot we can do with expanding academies, attracting more athletes and allowing for more skill development and free play earlier in life. But stuff takes time.
It makes perfect sense. The academy system isn't as good as many make it out to be and/or they still haven't solved other issues that are limiting player development. What is clear is that MLS is still not systematically pumping out high level players. MLS and its "supporters" give MLS way more credit than they deserve for everything, but especially player development. MLS and its academies have helped a lot of our players, but I dont think nearly as much want to believe. If you look at all of our top players they all have at least one these three traits.... they come from a soccer family, were exposed to a soccer culture at a young age, or are elite athletes. Soccer families - Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, Aaronson Exposed to soccer culture - Pulisic, Mckennie, all foreign raised duals Elite athletes - Adams, Turner, Mckennie, Do people really think Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, etc wouldn't have still been big time pros if there weren't academies? Stewart recently talked about the issue. The development of players pre academy isn't good enough. Until that is improved, we will continue to raise the floor of our players and every now and again a talented kid will come through who has been exposed to things most Americans haven't before the academy age who might be a difference maker.
Reyna was 3-4 years ago. Slonina is at that level but maybe we overlook him because he is a GK. But, yeah, I don't see anyone in the pipeline at that level.
I think the 7 years comes from Reyna being a 2002, and Sullivan, the presumed next player, being a 2009. Toss in Pulisic (1998) and maybe Maximo Carrizzo (2008). Of course, if we're going by "10" hype ... you might need to toss in Efrain Alvarez (2002) as well. Even without the maybes, it's like one playmaking star every five years. I don't actually know if that rate is all that out of whack given the general penetration of soccer culturally and where we are with academies, yet, etc.
Maybe our issues are perception. Clark and Cowell were supposed to be the next offensive stars but they have stalled over the last two years and don't look like they will reach that level. Has this made us cool off in our evaluations?
I do think a lot of this is perception, but I'm not sure Clark and Cowell are the causes. We've learned harder lessons. (Especially since Cowell has actually been good this year, just no end product.) I think there's a few things going on. One, people really expect this kind of thing to be linear. We had Pulisic, then Reyna, so this should be regular and accelerating, right? But that's not how it works. Developed nations have golden generations and droughts, and it often really doesn't have a concrete cause. We're putting out more players, but we're nowhere near the quantity needed to smooth out those ups and downs like Brazil does. We often will compare ourselves to the countries doing the best right at the moment and then ignore the ones in a down cycle. Germany has a ton more players in the system, a ton more reasons, and they've had like Kai Havertz and Jamal Musiala and a number of good players, but in terms of prospects everyone knew would be great playmakers at like 15 ... it's not that long of a list. Players like Julian Brandt were hyped but really only came into their own now, at 26. And, as we've talked before, we're a bit too focused on one type of player, and on early developers. People aren't just writing off players like Pepi or Paredes ... they are writing off 14 and 15 year olds. I mean, c'mon. I think this is all driven by the perception that a player like Adams or McKennie isn't good enough for this team to be really good. I think that's a mistake.
Alvarez? He isn't a playmaker at any level. Not sure about CP, Gio, or Canvas either. The last playmaker was Donovan, and them may be Ramos before him.
It could be our next world class player is a centerback. Do they count? In my book they do even if they emerge along a different maturation curve.
Efra was absolutely a playmaker for Mexico 17’s and at the USL level, but hasn’t quite made the mark that was hoped for him in MLS. There were numerous moments where Efra either scored or assisted for the Mexico 17’s in major games
At age 15, Efra absolutely tore up the USL initially, he couldn't stop scoring...had a wonderful touch and could strike a ball beautifully, was technically superb for his age and had the body to play with men. I had some doubts if he could continue to get the same output as he went higher given his strengths/weaknesses but at the time was highly rated.
Good interview with Soma here. Talks about the cultural and structural differences between the youth systems in the US and in Spain which I found interesting.
2006: Top 28 pic.twitter.com/Lqv0pmAXb6— USMNTProspects (@ProspectsUsmnt) December 30, 2022 With GA Cup 2023 starting this weekend I can't wait to see these '06s do their thing. Hope US Soccer is watching too!
Back in action 💪The #U17MYNT picks up its World Cup prep this week in South Florida. Eight players return from February's @Concacaf U-17 Championship ⤵️— U.S. Soccer YNT (@USYNT) April 17, 2023
Inside rise of USMNT and Liverpool starlet tipped to copy Christian Pulisic after 90-goal season Figueroa moved to Liverpool as an U14s player around the time that his father retired, with Maynor (Figueroa senior) having ties in the UK that he returned to after finishing his career in MLS. In one season for Liverpool, Figueroa (junior) scored 90 goals, before making his U18s debut at the age of 15.
If anyone's interest, CAF has basically wrapped determining who will be at the U17 World Cup. In win and your in Quarterfinals of their U17 Cup of Nations: Senegal smashed South Africa 5-0 Morocco stomped Algeria 3-0 Mali defenestrated Congo 3-0 Burkina Faso snuck by Nigeria 2-1 So Senegal, Morocco, Mali and Burkina Faso are in. In the semi's, Senegal advanced over Mali on Penalties, and Morocco advanced over Burkina Faso on Penalties. The final is tomorrow (Burkina Faso just beat Mali 2-1 in the 3rd place game). The UEFA Championships start a week from this Saturday and then AFC will wrap qualification for the tournament with their own confederation championship a month later, so about 2/3's of the field is now set.
There are a couple of issues people have to keep in mind. People have to remember that some MLS teams and also their academies are not older than 5 years. It's gonna take time to build a great academy system. In 2008 Phily Union become a MLS team and it took them years to make a brenden type of player. Our soccer culture is not there yet. MLS NP is not older than 3 years. We also are quick to overhype and underhyped players that are 15-18 years old. Look at Pepi, he was good or average at the youth level but at the age of 18 years old, he become the new shiny player. If you look at the U15-U17 there are some very good players that will make our ceiling higher. We should be having this conversation in the next 10 years.
The #U16MYNT will take on Japan 🇯🇵, Netherlands 🇳🇱, and Nigeria 🇳🇬 from May 25-June 5 at the International Dream Cup in Fukushima.— U.S. Soccer YNT (@USYNT) May 23, 2023 U16 camp, but would not be surprising to see some of these guys on the U17 World Cup roster. McFarlane was supposedly going to CONCACAF championships but wasn’t fit in time.
TBh Perez, Carrizo, McFarlane, and Berchimas should or will be in the U17 WC if they are accepted and released.
I don’t think he’s allowed to compete in this U17 World Cup, and he’d be a backup with this group anyway