No one intervened to tell anyone not to discuss things respectfully—which is exactly what I did. I don’t see what issue there could possibly be here, and discussing football in detail is what I’m here to do, so I often make long posts. There’s detail there that I think many might find interesting. The idea that I’ve “chased you into other threads,” rather than respectfully discussing the topics raised in other threads is just odd to me. It’s a sub-forum where most active posters end up posting in most of the active threads.
Wow Okay i have some questions Messi 22 or Maradona 1990? Ronaldinho 2002? R9 2002? Modric 2018? Neymar 2018? Neymar 2014? Robben 2014? Baggio 94? R9 98? Zidane 06? Zidane 98?
What’s with these options LMAO Ronaldinho 2002 Are you ********ing kidding me Is this your standard for great World Cup performances Only two of those campaigns would make my top 50 World Cup performances Baggio 1994 Ronaldo 2002 None of them are top 10 all time IMO I don’t rate most of these campaigns anywhere near what you probably do Just to keep your heart at ease Messi 22 was better than 90% of the names you mentioned Even though 90% of those campaigns weren’t all that special to begin with
Not top 100 is definite exaggeration. But Messi's campaign was nowhere as great as some of his fans even have the sheer audacity to hype it to. The best WC campaigns in terms of overall performance + also decisiveness from footages are : Maradona 86 Garrincha 62 Eusebio 66 Cruyff 74 and probably Kempes 78 Pele's 58 probably could sit with those if he played all the games in the tournament and we have footages of two games only (And yes both of those two games were better than any of Messi's wc performance in his entire career. No doubt for me) Messi's world cup 2022 is more of a slight worse version of Pele's 1970 world cup ( Pele's best moments being better than Messi's with similar general play) perhaps. And whether it is in Top 10 or not is also debatable . It can be anywhere from just inside T10 to T15 ot T20 idk if we go through all WC campaigns. Also getting those early penalties every game to give them the lead and biased refereeing vs worse opponents took a lot of pressure off. If they don't get the early penalty calls every game , the flow of the tournament and messi's games would probably gone to be worse, who knows? And most importantly, many people will have Mbappe's 2022 as better than Messi's 2022 and it is very reasonable for many to do it. Messi's terrorist fanbase on social media (Extremely narcissistic , violent, full of hatred and malice, close-minded ) will take this as some blasphemy , even though we can have a very good debate about Mbappe 2022 vs Messi 2022. No wonder, it is the most disgusting fanbase across any sport I've watched.
I actually agree with most things you said i personally would put pele 1970 and Messi 22 at the same tier even though Pele played in a wayyyyyy better team than Messi.
And pele's team faced much better team on average?? This is another side of the internet that I hate so much. Just show the partial side of the story (the one that goes in favour ) and discard the other side. The best attack argentina faced till the fina was literally Weghorts + Depay. Tells you everything about how far the strength of the top teams have fallen since early 2000s. 1998 World cup for example had 4 teams clearly better than any team participating in 2022: Brazil , Argentina, France, Netherlands All of them were better than any team in 2022 world cup. Just look at the team of the tournament of 2022 vs 1998/1970 world cup Or form two best xis from each and you will see the gulf of difference. So, please think deeper from next time onward , not just for football , but everything in general.
@carlito86 I‘m still waiting for you to drop 100 Individual World Cup performances better Than Messi 22 let alone 50
Okay, name those 100 performances or at least 20.. 3 incredible, decisive, clutch moments of pure magic. Scored all 5 out of 5 penalties quarter finals onwards, tap in in the final vs France, domination against Australia, all around great performance vs Poland, add to that many technically great progressive plays against Netherlands, Croatia and France. It's a no brainer. At the age of 35 nearly maximizing his potential. You are just biased.
Goals+assists per 90 without penalties Minimum 5 matches played(well over half the tournament) Raymond Kopa WC 1958 Playmaker 4 non penalty goals+9 assists 540 minutes played 2.16 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Pele 1970 WC Playmaker 4 non penalty goals+6 assists 540 minutes played 1.67 non penalty goals+assists per 90 Zico 1982 WC Playmaker 4 non penalty goals+4 assists 443 minutes played 1.63 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Johan Cruyff WC74 Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+7 assists 630 minutes played 1.43 non penalty goals/Assists per 90 Diego Maradona 1986 WC Playmaker 5 non penalty goals+5 assists 630 minutes played 1.43 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Gheorghe Hagi 1994 WC Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+4 assists 476 minutes played 1.35 non penalty goals+assists per 90 grzegorz lato 1974 WC Winger/playmaker 7 non penalty goals+2 assists 630 minutes played 1.29 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Tostao 1970 WC Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+4 assists 518 minutes played 1.22 non penalty goals+assists per 90 Rivelino 1974 WC Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+3 assists 450 minutes played 1.20 non penalty goals+assists per 90 Robert gadocha WC 1974 Playmaker 0 non penalty goals+8 assists 625 minutes played 1.15 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Dennis Bergkamp WC 1998 Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+3 assists 535 minutes played 1.01 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Rivaldo 2002 WC Playmaker 5 non penalty goals+1 assist 612 minutes played 0.88 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Wesley sneidjer 2010 WC Playmaker 5 non penalty goals+1 assist 653 minutes played 0.82 non penalty goals/assists per 90 Andreas brehme WC 1990 Defender 2 non penalty goals+3 assists 570 minutes played 0.79 non penalty goals/Assists per 90 Lionel Messi 2022 Playmaker 3 non penalty goals+3 assists 690 minutes played 0.79 non pen goals/assists per 90 No box strikers here for you to cry about Without penalties Messi 22 would barely enter the top 100 all time greatest individual performances of all time Messi was Dominant vs Australia Had Some woeful misses vs Poland A tapin vs France 0 dribbles completed vs France Also was dispossessed which directly lead to Mbappes goal Scored a penalty vs the worst penalty stopper in World Cup history Hugo Lloris has saved 0% of penalties that he has faced in a penalty shootout as France's goalkeeper in major tournaments (0/9).— Get French Football News (@GFFN) December 18, 2022 none of the penalties he scored were won by himself 0 That is the lowest form of goal for me. If ever a penalty goal should be discounted from a serious piece of analysis it is the penalty goal scored but won by a different player
i actually took you serious for a moment but you just showed your bias against messi with this on ofc a maradona x cristiano Fanboy would rate Messis World Cup in this way and you still didn´t show us 100 better individual World cup perfomances LMAO
Cristiano fan excluding penalties... until he realizes Messi has more non-penalty goals than Cristiano despite playing over a hundred fewer matches. His post is flat out ridiculous because he's including players like 1994 Hagi who lost in the QF and had no contributions in that round. Comparing that to Messi who played and contributed in every match up to and including the final.
People (Mostly Ronaldo fans)overblow the effect Penalties has on Messi so much lmao.Remove all Penalties and Messi still has 6 Goal Contributions in 7 Games plus his Dribbles clever Passes his created Chances how much he was involved in Build Up Play and The Quality and Importance of his Goals and Assists just Use the Eye Test Lmao this Messi campaign is either ridiculously overrated (Comparing this to Maradona 86 is a Joke let’s be Real) or Ridiculously underrated mostly by Cristiano/Maradona/Pele Fans.
@carlito86 Use the Eye Test and Tell me with a Straight Face this is not atleast a top 20 World Cup Perfomance of all Time.Based On General Play it blows every R9 WC campaign out of the Water and in my Opinion is easily on par with Pele 1970.
Right. Without pens Messi still has a goal contribution in every match from the R16 to the Final... And he made 5/5 pens during that span including shootouts under the highest of pressure...
Messi perfomance in 2022 is top-5 ever and arguably the best ever. While Cristiano didnt have top-100 ever perfomance at WC from 5 attempts.
Not to mention Messi have some of the best Copa America perfomances, while CR7 dont have top-20 Euro perfomance ever from 5 attempts. Cristiano is great NT player!