Perfomance at the WC: Maradona `1986 vs Messi 2022?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Gregoire1, Dec 20, 2022.

?

Better perfomance

  1. Messi 2022

    8 vote(s)
    13.8%
  2. Maradona 1986

    50 vote(s)
    86.2%
  1. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #1201 lessthanjake, Feb 10, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
    No one intervened to tell anyone not to discuss things respectfully—which is exactly what I did. I don’t see what issue there could possibly be here, and discussing football in detail is what I’m here to do, so I often make long posts. There’s detail there that I think many might find interesting. The idea that I’ve “chased you into other threads,” rather than respectfully discussing the topics raised in other threads is just odd to me. It’s a sub-forum where most active posters end up posting in most of the active threads.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  2. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    nah this is probaly the wildest take i have ever read in my life are u actually serious?
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    100% serious

    Or at least as serious as one could get about a seriously far fetched comparison
     
  4. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    Wow Okay i have some questions
    Messi 22 or

    Maradona 1990?
    Ronaldinho 2002?
    R9 2002?
    Modric 2018?
    Neymar 2018?
    Neymar 2014?
    Robben 2014?
    Baggio 94?
    R9 98?
    Zidane 06?
    Zidane 98?
     
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  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1205 carlito86, Mar 30, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
    What’s with these options LMAO
    Ronaldinho 2002
    Are you ********ing kidding me

    Is this your standard for great World Cup performances


    Only two of those campaigns would make my top 50 World Cup performances
    Baggio 1994
    Ronaldo 2002

    None of them are top 10 all time IMO

    I don’t rate most of these campaigns anywhere near what you probably do



    Just to keep your heart at ease
    Messi 22 was better than 90% of the names you mentioned

    Even though 90% of those campaigns weren’t all that special to begin with
     
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  6. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
     
  7. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020

    Not top 100 is definite exaggeration. But Messi's campaign was nowhere as great as some of his fans even have the sheer audacity to hype it to.

    The best WC campaigns in terms of overall performance + also decisiveness from footages are :

    Maradona 86
    Garrincha 62
    Eusebio 66
    Cruyff 74
    and probably Kempes 78

    Pele's 58 probably could sit with those if he played all the games in the tournament and we have footages of two games only (And yes both of those two games were better than any of Messi's wc performance in his entire career. No doubt for me)



    Messi's world cup 2022 is more of a slight worse version of Pele's 1970 world cup ( Pele's best moments being better than Messi's with similar general play) perhaps. And whether it is in Top 10 or not is also debatable . It can be anywhere from just inside T10 to T15 ot T20 idk if we go through all WC campaigns.

    Also getting those early penalties every game to give them the lead and biased refereeing vs worse opponents took a lot of pressure off. If they don't get the early penalty calls every game , the flow of the tournament and messi's games would probably gone to be worse, who knows?


    And most importantly, many people will have Mbappe's 2022 as better than Messi's 2022 and it is very reasonable for many to do it.

    Messi's terrorist fanbase on social media (Extremely narcissistic , violent, full of hatred and malice, close-minded ) will take this as some blasphemy , even though we can have a very good debate about Mbappe 2022 vs Messi 2022. No wonder, it is the most disgusting fanbase across any sport I've watched.
     
  8. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020

    What would be the T10 world cup campaigns ever for you?
     
  9. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    #1209 LaPulga22, Mar 30, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
    I actually agree with most things you said i personally would put pele 1970 and Messi 22 at the same tier even though Pele played in a wayyyyyy better team than Messi.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  10. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
     
  11. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    And pele's team faced much better team on average??
    This is another side of the internet that I hate so much. Just show the partial side of the story (the one that goes in favour ) and discard the other side.

    The best attack argentina faced till the fina was literally Weghorts + Depay. Tells you everything about how far the strength of the top teams have fallen since early 2000s.

    1998 World cup for example had 4 teams clearly better than any team participating in 2022:
    Brazil , Argentina, France, Netherlands

    All of them were better than any team in 2022 world cup.


    Just look at the team of the tournament of 2022 vs 1998/1970 world cup
    Or form two best xis from each and you will see the gulf of difference.

    So, please think deeper from next time onward , not just for football , but everything in general.
     
  12. aerez

    aerez Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You're making a football debate of who is better than who. Not the philosophy of life.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  13. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    @carlito86 I‘m still waiting for you to drop 100 Individual World Cup performances better Than Messi 22 let alone 50
     
  14. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Okay, name those 100 performances or at least 20..






    3 incredible, decisive, clutch moments of pure magic.

    Scored all 5 out of 5 penalties quarter finals onwards, tap in in the final vs France, domination against Australia, all around great performance vs Poland, add to that many technically great progressive plays against Netherlands, Croatia and France.

    It's a no brainer. At the age of 35 nearly maximizing his potential. You are just biased.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Goals+assists per 90 without penalties


    Minimum 5 matches played(well over half the tournament)



    Raymond Kopa WC 1958
    Playmaker
    4 non penalty goals+9 assists
    540 minutes played
    2.16 non penalty goals/assists per 90



    Pele 1970 WC
    Playmaker
    4 non penalty goals+6 assists
    540 minutes played
    1.67 non penalty goals+assists per 90




    Zico 1982 WC
    Playmaker
    4 non penalty goals+4 assists
    443 minutes played
    1.63 non penalty goals/assists per 90




    Johan Cruyff WC74
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+7 assists
    630 minutes played
    1.43 non penalty goals/Assists per 90




    Diego Maradona 1986 WC
    Playmaker
    5 non penalty goals+5 assists
    630 minutes played
    1.43 non penalty goals/assists per 90





    Gheorghe Hagi 1994 WC
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+4 assists
    476 minutes played
    1.35 non penalty goals+assists per 90



    grzegorz lato 1974 WC
    Winger/playmaker
    7 non penalty goals+2 assists
    630 minutes played
    1.29 non penalty goals/assists per 90




    Tostao 1970 WC
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+4 assists
    518 minutes played
    1.22 non penalty goals+assists per 90




    Rivelino 1974 WC
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+3 assists
    450 minutes played
    1.20 non penalty goals+assists per 90




    Robert gadocha WC 1974
    Playmaker
    0 non penalty goals+8 assists
    625 minutes played
    1.15 non penalty goals/assists per 90





    Dennis Bergkamp WC 1998
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+3 assists
    535 minutes played
    1.01 non penalty goals/assists per 90




    Rivaldo 2002 WC
    Playmaker
    5 non penalty goals+1 assist
    612 minutes played
    0.88 non penalty goals/assists per 90




    Wesley sneidjer 2010 WC
    Playmaker
    5 non penalty goals+1 assist
    653 minutes played
    0.82 non penalty goals/assists per 90




    Andreas brehme WC 1990
    Defender
    2 non penalty goals+3 assists
    570 minutes played
    0.79 non penalty goals/Assists per 90




    Lionel Messi 2022
    Playmaker
    3 non penalty goals+3 assists
    690 minutes played
    0.79 non pen goals/assists per 90




    No box strikers here for you to cry about


    Without penalties Messi 22 would barely enter the top 100 all time greatest individual performances of all time



    Messi was Dominant vs Australia


    Had Some woeful misses vs Poland


    A tapin vs France


    0 dribbles completed vs France


    Also was dispossessed which directly lead to Mbappes goal




    Scored a penalty vs the worst penalty stopper in World Cup history






    none of the penalties he scored were won by himself


    0


    That is the lowest form of goal for me.


    If ever a penalty goal should be discounted from a serious piece of analysis it is the penalty goal scored but won by a different player
     
  16. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    i actually took you serious for a moment but you just showed your bias against messi with this on ofc a maradona x cristiano Fanboy would rate Messis World Cup in this way and you still didn´t show us 100 better individual World cup perfomances LMAO
     
  17. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Cristiano fan excluding penalties... until he realizes Messi has more non-penalty goals than Cristiano despite playing over a hundred fewer matches. :whistling:

    His post is flat out ridiculous because he's including players like 1994 Hagi who lost in the QF and had no contributions in that round. Comparing that to Messi who played and contributed in every match up to and including the final.
     
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  18. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    People (Mostly Ronaldo fans)overblow the effect Penalties has on Messi so much lmao.Remove all Penalties and Messi still has 6 Goal Contributions in 7 Games plus his Dribbles clever Passes his created Chances how much he was involved in Build Up Play and The Quality and Importance of his Goals and Assists just Use the Eye Test Lmao this Messi campaign is either ridiculously overrated (Comparing this to Maradona 86 is a Joke let’s be Real) or Ridiculously underrated mostly by Cristiano/Maradona/Pele Fans.
     
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  19. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023
    @carlito86 Use the Eye Test and Tell me with a Straight Face this is not atleast a top 20 World Cup Perfomance of all Time.Based On General Play it blows every R9 WC campaign out of the Water and in my Opinion is easily on par with Pele 1970.
     
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  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    pretty embrassing post..

    86 to go..
     
  21. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Right. Without pens Messi still has a goal contribution in every match from the R16 to the Final... And he made 5/5 pens during that span including shootouts under the highest of pressure...
     
  22. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    Messi perfomance in 2022 is top-5 ever and arguably the best ever.
    While Cristiano didnt have top-100 ever perfomance at WC from 5 attempts.:ROFLMAO:
     
  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    9E62EA59-0941-4121-BB0A-C8549073CCA3.gif
     
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  24. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    Not to mention Messi have some of the best Copa America perfomances, while CR7 dont have top-20 Euro perfomance ever from 5 attempts. Cristiano is great NT player!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  25. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Not the best but top 6 7 yes
     

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