Ukraine v Russia II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Apr 20, 2022.

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  1. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
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    Seattle Sounders
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    That's not even remotely true. The US has been trying for decades to get Europe to stop being so insular and to take an active role on the global stage. A lot of the issues that are happening in around the world are 100% because Europe just abandoned the problems they created while they colonized the world.
     
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  2. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
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    Another mountain of salt time, but, allegedly, one of the Wagner's prisoner "recruits" completed his 6 months, got his pardon, and, while on leave, went on a crime spree, during which he killed a woman.

     
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  4. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
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    There were some NATO-plus-friends infantry exercises a few months back, Cold Response 2022 IIRC. The US sent a contingent of Marines - full-time soldiers from a crack unit with several years of training and (probably) some combat experience. The Finnish contingent was made up of conscripts who'd been selected for reserve officer or NCO training and had just finished their 11 months of training.

    The two units were pitted against each other during the exercise. The Finns won handily.

    Then there's this one:
    Finland wins huge NATO exercise featuring 8,000 attacks on 5,500 systems
    https://thestack.technology/finland-wins-nato-cyber-exercise-locked-shields/
     
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  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
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    This is largely misinformation. As with the previously bandied about claim that the UK Marines were able to defeat a much larger contingent of US Marines, the Finns and US marines were part of much larger opposition forces where the goal wasn't to "win" or "lose", but to learn how to work together as NATO and friends. In the case you are probably referencing, the Finns were paired with Swedes and the Marines were paired with Norwegian infantry that acted as a screening force. So.. No. a group of Finnish conscripts did not defeat a crack unit of US Marines in one-on-one combat.

    https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_194434.htm
     
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  6. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
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    On which of those matters do you think Europe follows the US's wishes, rather than acting on their interests?

    The fact that liberal democracies with highly developed economies agree on a lot of military, foreign policy, trade and energy matters is not a sign that some of them are satellites of the others. That's a Russian propaganda point, frankly. Liberal democracies tend to agree with each other a lot because they share many values, and have a lot in common.
     
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  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
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    When your armoured assault gets javelined to fvck

    I honestly don’t see how tanks get through like this.

    they can’t even see who kills them.

    1641545841650569219 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  8. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
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    Newest generation of tanks have a hard kill system that actively fights incoming projectiles. From a drone to an artillery shell or tank grenade. Most of the western tanks in Ukraine won't have those though. The Russians on the other hand have nothing comparable to western anti tank options. Most of their systems need to be controlled by wire and it needs a well trained soldier to hit with that on larger distances. NATO tanks also are able to shoot timed grenades that explode right over a trench or fox hole. It's hard for infantry to find effective cover when they roll in. The Leopard 2 A6 can shoot them with high accuracy up to 5! km distance.
     
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  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    thanks for the info. I was wondering about this.

    It definitely shows how things have got even worse for tankers.

    last time in this terrain they could at least duel with the enemy guns and the shaped charges could only hurt them close in.

    But now Ukrainian kill teams can take them out at extended ranges.

    you see how combined arms matters. You need your artillery to suppress the other guy. And your infantry and support to clear away the javelin guys

    but the amount of ATGM Ukraine has I wonder if that kind of assault just can’t work?
     
  10. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
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    Maybe I'm missing something, but all I see there is a bunch of tanks rolling through a field unsupported. No infantry screen, no apparent scouts, not even drones. That goes against decades of armored combat doctrine. And you'd think that after a year of that, even the Russians would change their tactics.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
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    DC United
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    Turkey has dropped its objections to Finland joining NATO.

    This invasion is an all timer in terms of strategic blunders.
     
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  12. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Jitty Slitter mentioned the key - artillery. Just having troops with the tanks wouldn't matter because they can't shoot anyone far away, and sending troops ahead is slow and just makes them vulnerable to mortars and direct fire.

    For every attack, you need to be shelling every place the enemy is or, if you don't have good intelligence, could conceivably be until the moment your troops are there. It won't kill most of the defenders, because contact detonated shells pretty much have to land in a trench to actually hurt anyone in a trench, but it forces those people to stay down. If the enemy is ducking instead of shooting, you can advance.

    That is how Russia was successful in their second waves of attacks around places like Sievierodonetsk and Popasna. They were shelling like crazy. They can't do that any more. That's what shell hunger does.
     
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  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
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    The video had some pretty good edits. Not all of those were javelin hits even tho they showed people shooting javelins. The BMP that got hit at 1:09 appears to have been a directional AT mine like the German DM22, while the last tank that was moving around at the end ran over a mine as it was trying to get away, even tho they showed a guy firing a javelin before it hit the mine.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    Kofmann had the explanation for this. They are ordered to attack, so they attack. They are not capable of anything better.
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
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    FC Sankt Pauli
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    The BMP at 1.09. ---> do you think it gets hit from the treeline? or is that the path of the shaped charge going through the vehicle into the trees?

    Sometimes I find it hard to tell which direction the charge went in
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
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    It looks like the directional mine was in the tree line to me. That’s actually one of the reasons I think it was a DM22-type weapon vs a person with an ATGM.

    Quick video on the DM22

     
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  17. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw that BMP one weeks ago.
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
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    They've been stepping up the psyops videos in the last 48hrs
     
  19. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, I've noticed a LOT of social media posts of Ukrainians training with Western heavy equipment recently. Someone's trying to scare someone, I think.
     
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  20. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    An indirect result of the war is the grain market in Europe is totally screwed up. Before, Ukraine would ship out their grain to the wide world from their ports. Now shipping is limited, and for a long time non-existent. So lots of the grain went west into Europe by train. But Europe can't ship it all out because their ports are limited, especially in nearby Romania, and they already had their own grain growers. So now there is a glut, and prices have crashed. Farmers, especially in the east, are pissed.
     
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  21. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    #8871 Ceres, Mar 30, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023

    Can't speak for other countries, but here in Denmark the harvest has been vastly better in 2022 than in 2021. The harvest of grain was up by 1 million ton from 8.8 million ton to 9.8 million ton, so the Danish farmers were earning vastly more than usual, also when you deduct the higher transport cost and much higher cost of fertilizer for the next harvest. (Denmark produces around 3 times as much food as the Danes can possibly consume.)

    Denmark have also had an increasing government budget surplus the past two years in a row. It went from a small $613 million budget deficit in 2020 (obviously because of the covid-19 crisis) to a surprising $8.4 billion surplus in 2021 and a now recently revealed, and just as surprising $18.4 billion surplus in 2022, which is around $7.5 billion more than estimated in August 2022. Denmark's gross domestic product (GDP) also went up by 1.1% in the fourth quarter of 2022, primarily driven by strong industrial performance. Based on all the final figures, Statistics Denmark have revealed that in 2022 the full year GDP growth was 3.6%

    Btw. the worlds largest container shipping company Maersk have made their largest profit ever.
     
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  22. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Hookers and blow for every Dane!
     
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  23. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
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    DC United
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    Not to bag on Denmark, but Danish wheat production is about a third of Ukrainian pre-war production, and about 1% of the world's total. That extra 1 million tones of production isn't making a real difference in the wheat production disruption this war is creating.
     
  24. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark

    It's not wheat but grain. Wheat is not that popular around here, people for the most part like rye bread.
     
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  25. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
     
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