CONCACAF Nations League - A new competition for national teams

Discussion in 'CONCACAF' started by Blue Lou, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
  2. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Agree. I gotta think CONCACAF has to be feeling pretty good after year 1 in spite of the chaos COVID caused
     
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  3. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I just hope that, for next season, CONCACAF mirrors what UEFA did and turns League A into four-team groups, e.g. 16+16+9 instead of the current 12+16+13. Three-team groups are simply awkward.
     
  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh... UEFA has more depth, and I think getting the US and Mexico to give up two friendly dates for more games against Cuba and Grenada is too much of an ask.
     
  5. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Yeah, that's the one worry I had about the suggestion as well - there's a much bigger spread 1-to-16 in C'CAF than in UEFA. It just feels cleaner to me with nice square groups. X-D

    Besides, if you look at the four teams that would be "saved" for next season, at least two of them (T&T and Haiti) certainly don't feel incredibly overmatched against the likes of C'CAF's top teams even if they are definitely weaker.
     
  6. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    I think the 3 team groups work well for where CONCACAF is at
    To me Concacaf has pretty distinguished tiers at the top
    Tier 1 - Mexico, USA, Costa Rica, Honduras
    Tier 2 - Jamaica, Panama, Canada, El Salvador
    Tier 3 - Haiti, Guatemala, Curacao, Martinique
    Tier 4 - T&T, Suriname, Cuba, Guadeloupe
    Tiers 2, 3, and 4 are pretty close making it a fun, more elite competition
     
  7. italiancbr

    italiancbr Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    Competitive games are better than friendlies, but the finals tournament was essentially a money-making scheme with a trophy but without any purpose. It is what it is. It's not a continental championship and there's no qualification to a Global Nations League. UEFA and Concacaf should at least try to set up a match between their NL champions going forward. I liked the original concept of a Global Nations League, so if Africa, Asia, and S. America ever get on board, there could be some real potential.
     
  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #683 HomietheClown, Jun 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
    Well, in some ways you are right. In some ways you are wrong.
    Last night was more important than the Gold Cup this cycle. That (GC) continental Championship is going to ring really hollow with a bunch of benchers out there.
    Teams took this tournament more seriously this summer.
     
  9. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Moving forward with no Confederation Cup bid on the line, I see the Nations League becoming more prestigious than the Gold Cup....thoughts???
     
  10. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Possibly.
    Although it does not take much to be more prestigious than the Gold Cup.
     
  11. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...which is something that Montagliani has tacitly accepted when asked on OneSoccer about the Gold Cup continuing to be every two years.

    Essentially, Concacaf would rather the Gold Cup be profitable than prestigious.
     
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  12. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, a tournament featuring the (NL) champions of each confederation. I wonder what they'd call it :D
     
  13. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    I could see one day a joint undertaking between multiple associations to have a Nations League like format with elite teams from each confederations.

    The format is already there and proving successful for UEFA and CONCACAF so why not add to it? Like a National teams Champions League
     
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  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, I don't know if anyone is going to start a separate thread for the next edition...

    I know what you're thinking: isn't it super early to be talking about it?

    I'd think the same thing... but strangely, Haitian sports outlet TotalMixRadio is claiming that Concacaf already set the groups for 2022-23, and that Haiti's League B group will include Montserrat, Nicaragua and Guadeloupe.

    It's odd that their note doesn't include any of the other groups; and I haven't seen any announcement from Concacaf or anyone else on this. o_O
     
  15. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    That would be a stacked group
     
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  16. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    Agree with this. I like 16 teams for the Gold Cup - give more nations a shot & works better for the tournament (no best 3rd place in group advancing).

    But, if you separate the teams into tiers, I the top tier cuts off around 12, and there's a big drop-off down at 16. So, if the top level of Nations League included 16 teams, now you're relegating 4, and promoting 4 who in theory are ranked between 17 and 20.

    Too large of a competitive gap between #8 and #20 would make the Nations League under that format less interesting/competitive. Keeping that Middle group (B) at 16 teams is probably also better for helping to develop those teams.
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #692 Paul Calixte, Mar 9, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
    Seems as good a place as any for pontificating on this update ( @IASocFan @Wiso @edcalvi maybe we'd want to make a 2026 WCQ thread and/or turn the Gold Cup subform into Gold Cup / Nations League? ):



    To summarize the men's NT components as best I can:

    Nations League

    We will have two more editions of NL in this WC cycle o_O But with a format change that will allow the bigger teams a break...

    The current one (2022-23) will finish as scheduled, with the groups ending this month and the Final Four in June. However, there is no relegation, with League A expanding to 16 teams for the next edition.

    For 2023-24 and 2024-25, the top 4 ranked teams in League A (per the Concacaf ranking) get a bye from the group stage, with everyone else getting drawn into two groups of 6. Here's where things get screwy: the groups will play out over four matchdays (in September and October) Swiss-style, so we're not getting a full round robin. :mad:

    When it's done, the top 2 in each group will advance to home-and-away quarterfinals in November, joining the 4 seeded teams; the QF winners will advance to the Final Four, to be played the following March. The bottom 2 in each group will get relegated to League B.

    Leagues B (16 teams in 4 groups of 4) and C (9 teams in 3 groups of 3) will play out a normal home-and-away round robin schedule from September to November, with the group winners and the best runner-up in League C getting promoted.

    Gold Cup

    We already know about the current NL feeding into the 2023 Gold Cup; it will have the same format as its predecessor, with Qatar participating as a guest team.

    The announcement also states that there will be a 2025 Gold Cup, with the 2024-25 Nations League serving as qualifying... but without further details on how it will work.

    Copa América

    So if the 2024-25 NL edition will determine the 2025 Gold Cup participants, why are we having a 2023-24 edition? That's because that competition - more specifically, that edition of League A - will determine Concacaf's 6 participants in the next Copa América. That's right, all 6 - even the US has to qualify.

    The winners of the 2023-24 CNL quarterfinals (in November of this year) all qualify for the Copa América, while the losers will go to 1-game playoffs in March 2024 for the last two berths, like we had in Panama in 2016 ahead of the Centenario.

    2026 World Cup qualifying

    32 teams will participate, as the United 2026 hosts will all qualify automatically.

    The 4 lowest-ranked Concacaf teams in the FIFA World Ranking will kick off WCQ by getting paired based on ranking (i.e. no draw, just 1 v. 4 and 2 v. 3) for home-and-away playoffs in March 2024.

    The rest join the two playoff winners for Round 2: the 30 sides will get drawn into 6 groups of 5, where everyone plays each other once with 2 home and 2 away games, similar to the first round of 2022 WCQ. Even more surprising, the first 2.5 matchdays will happen in June 2024, and the last 2.5 matchdays in June 2025, to accommodate Nations League :confused:

    The group winners and runners-up will get drawn into 3 groups of 4 for the last round, to be played in September/October (4 matchdays all bunched up into the same window) and November 2025. They'll play the traditional home-and-away round robin; the group winners will qualify for United '26, while the two best runners-up will move on to the intercontinental playoff in March '26.

    In calendar form...


    2023

    March - Nations League group stage

    June - Nations League Final Four

    June/July - Gold Cup

    September - Nations League group stage

    October - Nations League group stage

    November - Nations League quarterfinals (League A) / group stage (Leagues B, C)


    2024

    March - Nations League Final Four, Copa América single-leg playoffs, WCQ Round 1

    June - WCQ Round 2

    June/July - Copa América

    September - Nations League group stage

    October - Nations League group stage

    November - Nations League quarterfinals (League A) / group stage (Leagues B, C)


    2025

    March - Nations League Final Four

    June - WCQ Round 2

    June/July - Gold Cup

    September/October - WCQ Round 3

    November - WCQ Round 3


    2026

    March - Intercontinental playoffs

    June/July - World Cup finals
     
  18. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the League A groups starting in the next edition: I've been thinking about how to make the schedule the most equitable it can be under the circumstances, and the answer I've come up with is taking the round-robin schedule for a six-team group and removing the matchday with:

    1 v. 6
    2 v. 5
    3 v. 4

    That way, you can add up the Pots for every team and they'll all equal 14 (e.g. Team 1 playing 2, 3, 4 and 5... Team 4 playing 1, 2, 5 and 6... Team 5 playing 1, 3, 4 and 6).
     
  19. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    If I am understanding the Nations League seeding correctly, it will be US v Mexico in one semifinal. Canada v Costa Rica or Panama in the other.
     
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  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Yup.

    Which means an empty stadium for Can-Pan and a full one for USA-Mex. :ROFLMAO:
     
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  21. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    My initial thoughts are that I'm not really a fan of the home and home quarter-finals. We'll see how this plays out - it's possible I change my mind on that.
     
  22. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    They've reduced the pre Semi final commitment for the top 4 teams from 4 games to 2

    I bet this format becomes the norm
     
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  23. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    New CONCACAF rakings are out for March
    Based on previously released information, these rankings should be used for next Nations League
    TOP 4
    1 Mexico
    2 United States
    3 Costa Rica
    4 Canada

    League A
    5 Panama A1
    6 Haiti A1
    7 Jamaica A1
    8 Guatemala A1
    9 Honduras A2
    10 El Salvador A2
    12 Martinique A2
    13 Curaçao A2
    14 Cuba A3
    16 Suriname A3
    17 Nicaragua A3
    25 Grenada A3


    League B
    11 Trinidad & Tobago B1
    15 French Guiana B1
    18 Guyana B1
    19 Guadeloupe B1
    20 Antigua and Barbuda B2
    21 St. Kitts & Nevis B2
    22 Dominican Republic B2
    23 Bermuda B2
    24 St. Lucia B3
    26 Puerto Rico B3
    27 Montserrat B3
    28 St. Vincent & the Grenadines B3
    29 Belize B4
    30 Barbados B4
    34 Bahamas B4
    37 Sint Maarten B4


    League C
    31 Bonaire C1
    32 Dominica C1
    33 Aruba C1
    35 Turks and Caicos Islands C2
    36 Cayman Islands C2
    38 Saint Martin C2
    39 Anguilla C3
    40 US Virgin Islands C3
    41 British Virgin Islands C3
     
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  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So if they decide to have six separate pots for the League A group stage draw (noting that the teams will get placed in 2 groups of 6), they would look like:

    Pot 1

    Panama
    Haiti

    Pot 2

    Jamaica
    Guatemala

    Pot 3

    Honduras
    El Salvador

    Pot 4

    Martinique
    Curaçao

    Pot 5

    Cuba
    Suriname

    Pot 6

    Nicaragua
    Grenada
     
  25. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Wouldn't they do 3 pots with each of the two groups getting two teams in each pot?

    With it not being true round robin, the rule could be the team you don't play in the group is the team in your pot.

    Pot 1 - Panama, Haiti, Jamaica, Guatemala

    Pot 2 - Honduras, El Salvador, Martinique, Curacao

    Pot 3 - Cuba, Suriname, Nicaragua, Grenada
     
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