these players are still better than the MLSers the chosen 11 by gregg - apparently its the same one Hudson likes as (makes me wonder how much involvement gregg still has behind the scenes, tbh) just doesnt mesh well in terms of strengths and weaknesses yes to a man they are almost all the "best" at their positions - jedi, pulisic, mckennie, musah, dest, ream, etc...its hard to make any argument that they arent the best in the pool at their positions its how the puzzle pieces fit together, so to speak, that isnt happening i used to hate klinsmanns reasoning for leaving good players frozen out f his rosters - and his overall pessimisstic view of what the usmnt was capable of on the field - but this is what he knew - he fit his teams together very well to cover for each other in a way this continuation of greggs team STILL hasnt become more than the sum of its parts for me, it is still quite less than the sum of its players STILL where is the chemistry that these players praise gregg for? its not on the field!! and yeah wtf does that have to do with the fact that the MLSers arent good enough, ?? it is irrelevant to this problem it comes down to a lack of coaching and ability to bring a team together ON THE PITCH not in the hotel - where gregg is apparently a mastermind why does this team STILL look like they havent played together?? it is baffling i can only guess it is becuase the coaching is poor. hugo perez gets so much out his pool he would be a better usmnt manager than geggg by a lot.
Think back to Klinsmann getting smoked by Costa Rica. Legitimately one of the worst results in American history, that led to both JK getting fired and us missing the World Cup. Then, explain to me how he was superior to Gregg at ‘fitting his teams very well together to cover for each other’. How was that superior to Berhalter, who won nations league, GC, qualified for WC, and made it to knockout rounds? Just curious about the mental gymnastics you’re performing that day that lead to you thinking JK was superior in any aspect? Make it make sense for me lol
think about the first cycle go look at the lineups that klinsmann used in WC and Copa America he had A LOT LESS talent than gregg did at his disposal I wasnt a huge fan of Klinsmann but he did get a lot out of a little his teams were often punching above their weight (i think he coudlve gotten more but thats not the point) gregggs teams are punching below their weight concacaf should be a cakewalk for this player pool...so stop using concacaf results to prop up berhalter
Klinsmann's tenure was an absolute mess behind the scenes. Both cycles. Own Goal: The Inside Story of How the USMNT Missed the 2018 World Cup - The Ringer We can all argue about whether Berhalter's results matched the talent at his disposal. But the program is in infinitely better shape at his departure than it was at his arrival. Just read about the dysfunction that he inherited. Its amazing, and I'm sure that ringer story is only half of what was going on. That's one of the reasons this Reyna stuff is a shame. Cuz they had fixed an enormous number of locker room issues. 15 years from now we'll hopefully think of Berhalter's tenure as the bridge, the launching point, to the ultimate success in 2026 and 2030. I think his results matched my expectations (after the disastrous 2018 cycle), and that means it was a success.
i dont want to make this about klinsmann vs gregg I dont like either point is: greggs teams are still less than the sum of their parts despite the talking points about chemistry and cameraderie etc.... on the field, after 5 years together, the current core of the usmnt looks like thevye just met yesterday How can that be addressed??? how can it be fixed??? it is a huge problem. that makes no sense especially when you consider how much continuity and familiarity and the like are valued in terms of roster construction. forget I mentioned klinsmann just think about the failings of the current group to gel, to mesh, to bring the best out of each other etc
That's a question for the next coach. I think Berhalter was infinitely better than Klinsmann. I do think sometimes that we over-rate the talent at the disposal of the USMNT coach. Like..........................a team such as Holland has a better player at every position on the field. Not close. Not even close. So we're the 13th ranked team in the world, and that's probably right where our talent suggests we should be. We should be in the Round of 16 at the World Cup. Quarterfinals would be exceeding expectations. If we'd have beaten Holland (who took Champions Argentina to penalties), that would have been a big upset. Or most talented player, Pulisic, is a sometimes starter for the 10th placed team in the Premier League. Kylian Mbappe he is not. McKennie, Adams, and Aaronson are in the relegation zone of the Premier League. Pepi is in the relegation zone in Holland. de la Torre is on a non-descript La Liga team. Chris Richards is a bench player on a struggling Premier League team. The list goes on with others. Reyna is a bench player on a good Bundesglia team. Matt Turner is a bench player. Dest never plays. Weah has been oft-injured, and currently playing fullback at times. And by the way, our depth is questionable in any number of positions. That's really noticed when a player like Adams goes down with injury. So I totally get your point about "playing better than the sum of our parts"..................but are we being honest with ourselves about those parts?
It is undoubtedly true that coaching does play a role in whether or not a tea plays above their heads. I'll give you that. I will say, however, that all of our teams that played over their talent level in the past had something that this team didn't have. I'll give you a hint: it wasn't youth. We were in a unique position this cycle where we had very little experience on the field. We had Ream, Zimmerman, Yedlin and? The other teams had veteran leadership throughout the roster. Imo, veteran savvy and experience is key to overperforming. In fact, the definition of a wiley veteran is pretty much doing more with less. In case you misinterpret this as a defense of Gregg, that isn't the intention. One of his biggest faults, imo, is that he tends to overthink and overcomplicate things. That doesn't make overperforming easier but I also think you are focusing in too narrowly on a few cause/effects and ignoring others. Finally, here's something to make your really wonder if this is a pro Gregg post or not....what if this group actually did overperform as a group compared to what the same exact group would have done under one of our past managers (you pick from anyone beginning with Bora to Klinsy). Impossible to prove one way or the other but interesting food for thought. (at least in my small mind)
Very nice post. I felt that sometimes we saw a team that knew they could dribble past teams and either over dribbled or let hard fouls get to them too often. I think that's why a lot of times Gregg's response was usually to put Acosta or Yedlin in the game to up the intensity while also having people who were in control of their emotions (didn't always work) also felt some of the young guys occasionally played for fouls too often and didn't adjust to how games were reffed. Thats where I think youth was an issue but also somewhere I think Gregg could have done better
You're only as good as your last cycle. Coaches should be judged on how the team is doing currently, and not how they did during the "glory days." While this iteration of the USMNT has a lot of talent with potential compared to other iterations, it's still only potential. The teams in 2010 and 2014 had players who were performing consistently at Club level, and with the national team. One of the main issues with the current is that their best players haven't actually spent all that much time playing together due to injuries and suspensions. Sure the cycle was 4 years, but in actuality it was really only 3 when you factor in 2020 (lost year due to Covid). Then you look at the number of games missed due to injury for Weah, Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Pulisic, Robinson, Dike, etc. The best players haven't played together all that much. Despite what some fans want to believe, the replacements for these players.....aren't close to their level.
USMNT fans highly overrate our player pool. I kind of understand why. We have never had these many players in Europe so it is a first for many hard-core USMNT fans. They think by having so many players in Europe it's going to equal instant success and they over look what you described is the true reality of each and every single one of our NT players. They want to find someone to blame for the "failure" of not making it further in the WC so they blame MLS and its players,, GGG and everyone but never realize that we went as far as our current talent can take us, which is to be amongst the top 16 teams. Beating Netherlands would've been a big upset. Anything is possible in soccer but it wouldn't have meant we are a top 8 team in the world.
We've got a lot of talent that isn't playing enough. Play time is the biggest contributor to consistency and development if it's at the right level. Now I'm not suggesting we should start Morris over Pulisic because Morris plays every week. It'd just be really helpful if Pulisic could get as many minutes as Morris does. As cool as it's been to have all these players at big teams, I hope most take a small step down so they are starters near every week. It'd make the team better no matter who is manager.
This. Given the post-World Cup club landscape for our guys I'm even more convinced that the World Cup was a good showing considering what we're working with.
And many of our best players had their breakout club season in 2019-20... there was no reason to call them up in 2019 because they'd done nothing at the time. They would have been integrated in 2020 friendlies, except that we had no friendlies that summer. So we went almost straight into competitive matches in 2021 using our end-of-2019 lineup, and had to integrate multiple players during World Cup qualifying.
The cycle was actually over 5 years and started on 11/14/17 in Portugal. If Berhalter hadn't wasted all of 2019, more could have been done during the pandemic. It wasn't a full lost year either. Berhalter could have had twice as much time with the key players in 2020, but chose not to schedule a camp with his key players in 2020. CCV, ARobinson, Sargent, and Weah were already succeful USMNT players that Berhalter decided to not include for MLS guys that didn't make it to 2021. The core of our WC roster had been in the team prior to 2019. That group could have gotten a head start working together so that Dest, Musah, Reyna, etc could have been much more easily integrated when they committed or broke through. Here is an XI with guys who had successful caps prior to Berhalter starting.... Steffen, Arob, Ream/Brooks, CCV/Miazga, Yedlin, Adams, Mckennie, Xxx, Pulisic, Sargent, Weah. We were short a midfielder, but could solve that by going three at the back. Compare that to the lineups that clown rolled out. Injuries and a pandemic aren't as difficult to deal with if the coach hasn't sabotaged the team for a year.
Except the most important thing. They played well for the USMNT in 2018. The second most important thing is the trash players that were called in. That was all on Berhalter. The only useful player that needed integrating during WCQ was de la Torre. Everyone else should have already been settled. The idea that Arriola was still ahead of Weah at the beginning of WCQ has anything to do with anything besides Berhalter is complete bullshit.
I dont at all. Another way to look at it would be to swap teams these two guys had. I would have loved to have seen Klinsmann with this group of players. JK's eye for talent, recruiting skills, and ability to motivate would have made this a very entertaining team to watch. I have no clue what to think Berhalter would have done with that prior group. Even less depth which would make the players he had falling outs with that more troublesome. I would have enjoyed watching the leadership council try to figure out what to do with LD. That could have taken the team down all by itself. Not sure a Berhalter team could score on any of those teams in that group. I dont like doing rankings, but I had always had appreciation for what Bora, Bruce in 2002, Bob to a slightly lesser extent, and Klinsmann did. I could see arguments for any of those coaches. I dont see Berhalter at the level of those guys. I guess he is ahead of Sampson and Arena 2.0 and 3.0.
Reyna? Musah? Aaronson? Dest? None of them were capped in 2018. Jedi Robinson was terrible in 2018 and his exclusion in 2019 was fully justified at the time.
They were in the first camp they were "eligible" for in 2020. No and no! It is so tiring how full of shit you guys are. MLS fans constantly get dual nationals wrong. Robinson was fine in 2018. A balanced assessment would be he shows tons of potential but like all young defenders, he needs more experience. Even if your assessment was right, he was still more talented than the guys brought in, especially Lovitz. Of course, those same fans who bashed Robinson for no reason, now vastly over rate him.
In other words, they weren't in the pool in 2019, were they? And how much did we play in 2020? Oh, right. Hate on Arriola and Lletget all you like, they were legitimately starters in 2019 because the players who would go on to replace them weren't get in the pool and hadn't yet done anything to get themselves into the pool, and were still starters going into 2021 because we played no games with the full squad in 2020.
The only reason their replacements weren't in the pool was because Berhalter kicked them out of it. You are the ********ing moron that said we had to integrate a bunch of players during WCQ. I pointed out that the only useful player that needed to be integrated during WCQ was de la Torre, who also could have been integrated sooner. All the players you brought were or should have been regulars before WCQ. It is almost like you have no idea what you are talking about. WCQ didn't start until the fall of 2021. I will definitely hate on those crap MLS players that don't belong on the USMNT. I personally have no idea what "hadn't yet done anything to get themselves into the pool" means. I do know that Arriola was never a better soccer player than Weah while Berhalter was coach. I also know that Lletget wasn't a "legit starter" in 2019 because Berhalter was still ********ing around with Trapp, Bradley, and Yeuill. That idiot coach didn't fall in love with da boy until 2020.
I don't know where to start because you're so utterly delusional. The players I named should have been regulars sooner... in the games that weren't being played? Kicked out of the pool, when they hadn't been in it before 2020? Utterly delusional. Also, you do realize that Weah was injured for most of 2019-20 season?
You keep making a bunch of stupid arguments so hard to keep it straight. Weah, Sargent, Robinson, and CCV had all proved prior to 2019 that they belong in the USMNT pool. Dest, Musha, Reyna, and Aaronson broke out or committed to the US in 2019/20. Luca had people clamoring for them by the beginning of 2021 and was in the March 2021 camp. Looking at these facts, your arguments/statements make no sense to me. Lletget and Arriola should never been regulars call ups, let alone play a quarter of the minutes they got. Almost every key player from the WC squad should have been integrated prior to WCQ starting. If Berhalter wasn't so far behind, he could have integrated Haji during WCQ instead of giving him a couple caps afterward and throwing him into the WC.
Not enough big game players. Pulisic is by far the best we have in that regard and with respect to him he's not good enough to be a Golden Ball candidate at a major tournament. He's injury prone on top of that which has likely affected the chances of him developing into that type of player. Reyna is still young but looks to be on a similar trajectory. Great by our standards, not hugely impressive on a global stage. McKennie is a major piece for the national team and lately he looks like a glorified hockey enforcer for Leeds. Adams is very good for us, but again, not hugely impactful on the whole. No regular goal scorer in a top league. No starting goalkeeper in a top league. A better coach might have us playing more attractively in regional competition. A wonder coach might get us a big upset over the Netherlands by whatever means necessary, but it would be a big upset.