US Soccer - Married to Mediocrity

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Deadtigers, Mar 29, 2023.

  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Not my words but in the words of one of the country's greatest strikers ever.



    I must admit I was so eager to start this thread that I haven't fully read the article. Once I'm done reading the article I will post my comments.
     
  2. United1

    United1 Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Only Waldo would say we have too many kids playing soccer:

    "There are too many kids playing soccer.

    Let me rephrase that. It’s wonderful that kids are playing the beautiful game, no doubt. But there are too many parents paying thousands of dollars for their kids to play alongside truly great players. That’s not helping our best ones (and it doesn’t help the average ones, who are outclassed in every game they play). Our best players need to be playing with and against each other, not alongside a bunch of kids who effectively act as training cones."

    What? I have a son that plays travel soccer (not at the highest level within the program). He doesn't play alongside "truly great players." He plays alongside and against players roughly at his level (and therefore, NOT outclassed in every game). We know that the dues we pay for him to play help hire good coaches and help fund the highest-level teams. That is the cost of pay-to-pay, and we are fine with it. Overall, it is definitely a crap system, but to say there are too many kids playing soccer is possibly the dumbest argument I have ever heard.
     
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  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like most things coming from Wynalda there's not a ton of value from this article.

    The only real point he makes is on coaching education.
     
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  4. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    "The only problem with youth sports in this country is the adults." - Bobby Dodd (Former president of the AAU)
     
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  5. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    From Michael Jordan to Tom Brady we have seen that the best players are not the product of some great system. They enjoyed sports, had some gifts and worked hard.

    Wayne Gretzky scored over 300 goals in his final year of Pee Wee. Nobody taught him that.
     
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  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes and no. Those players are great because they are super talented and have legendary work ethic. And that’s usually the case with most star players independent of sport.

    But they also are the product of development systems and coaching in their respective sports which we haven’t really reached when it comes to soccer in this country.

    This is why I say the coaching education part is the only real point he makes. We don’t have enough good coaches in this country. And you just don’t need good coaching at the MLS level, but across the development system.
     
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  7. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I've been hearing a lot of players talk about the importance of playing for fun and not being huge fans of travel leagues.
     
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  8. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Agreed, and the only way to develop a good coaching infrastructure is to have a ton of people playing a sport. Coaches aren’t built anymore than players. They learn from doing and striving for success.
     
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  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s true but coaching education is also run entirely by USSF. And their are questions as to the quality of that education (UEFA does not see the A license as equivalent for instance) and both the cost and accessibility of that coaching education (as it is both expensive and opportunities are limited in number).

    This is actually the sort of thing that’s entirely within the control of USSF and which they very much have the power to improve.
     
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  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I saw the thread title and knew Wynalda was involved I thought maybe it was what his ex-wife claimed.
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He's not wrong about really good prospects playing along not-so-good prospects. But what hell are we supposed to do? Right now MLS clubs are working and working and working to collect the best talent.

    We're just now getting MLS Next Pro and the reserve league set up. It'll take time.

    As usual, Wynalda bitches and bitches and bitches............but offers no solutions.
     
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  12. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Maybe the Mods could merge all the Wynalda threads together and make sure his name is in the title.
     
  13. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    You obviously know tons more than me about USSF and the obstacles to broad success in soccer.

    I personally don’t believe that Canada became better than the rest of the world at hockey because of a system they built and controlled though. Canadians just love hockey. Iranians love wrestling. The love of the sport is the catalyst and should be the primary mission.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #14 gogorath, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    So the great players need to play against each other, but also ... they shouldn't travel.

    Well, let's hope the next generation is all born within a six block radius!

    Seriously, though. How do you get the best players to play against each other and not travel? Right now, it's one or the other, at least until professional academies that pay for the travel kick in.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's no doubt there's no formula. But all of these had a full fledged culture around the sport, lots of other kids playing competitively and a clear path. Brady grew up in a rich area -- I'd bet he had private coaching. Jordan less so, but basketball is a religion in North Carolina in some places.

    But yeah, the true outliers are a non-controllable. You can just improve the way around them.

    The answer to literally all of our questions in the biggest sense is culture, and you can't force it and you can't manufacture. You can nurture it in small ways. So go do those small ways in the best you can.
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sure, but there's also a strong pro league and strong junior pro league and strong youth leagues with coaches who played a lot of hockey when they were young and parents who start playing hockey with their kids as soon as they can and take them to games.

    Americans don't love soccer. Not like Canadians love hockey. You can't force that. You can barely help that. But what you can do is help build up the rest of the infrastructure around it so the kids who do love soccer get the best support they can.

    The best thing USSF ever did for development was set up MLS. There's so many kids when you read the interviews where they realize, in sharp contrast to years ago, that they can do this for a living, that there's a path to wherever they want to go (even Europe). Many of them grew up watching and their team and playing in the academy for years. That's why it is so ironic the hatred for MLS in the fanbase. People act that like support structure would have just arisen. Literally billions and billions of investment come out of nowhere.

    So yeah, a kid can love playing. But let's educate the youth coach and the parents about the correct ways to play and even that they should encourage more free play. They don't do it on their own -- and kids in the US largely don't play pickup -- so maybe USSF should prod that?
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #17 gogorath, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    Much of everything he said in the article is roughly true, aside from both the obsession with pressure and I'd bet the Dutch scout thing -- it seems very Wynalda to make that up.

    The pro coaching license needs a total overhaul and investment. It'd be great to have more competitive leagues, but as you say, that's harder than it sounds. I can't speak to the possession versus striker things ... there's a lot of countries without a great striker, though I do think we should encourage more free play.

    But here's the Wynalda thing. He thinks that other people are totally complacent, and he's the only guy who sees this or the only guy who cares. There's not enough pressure on them! That's it! It's like Brad Freidel thinking the problem was no one was kicking his players asses in the parking lot. It's the burn it all down mentality.

    Real change is hard and takes work. Wynalda doesn't want to do it.

    We'd be a lot better off if these guys actually got to work instead of write articles. Does Wynalda have a youth team he bankrolls with the way he'd teach? Earnie Stewart is in player dev. Brian McBride has a youth team. EJ had a youth team and a consulting service.
     
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  18. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    #18 Dan Loney, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    I had a sharp exchange with Mr. Wynalda on this topic over Twitter DMs. He had absolutely trashed the person who accused him of accepting NASL money, saying that he had nothing to do with Rocco Commisso.

    I bring this up because it's entirely possible that Eric Wynalda completely forgot that Miami FC was an NASL team at the time. I wouldn't give that benefit of the doubt to anyone who could tie their shoes given five tries, but I genuinely could see Wynalda's brain working like that.

    On the other hand, Wynalda of course did not apologize to the journalist who broke the story (he was out of Seattle, I apologize if he's reading, but I'm aging very badly and I honestly cannot recall his name).
     
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  19. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I went to my brother's youth soccer games as a kid. The parents of the star striker would shout "Be more aggressive!", which I found strange at the time. He turned into a long term MLS player and had a few caps for the USMNT.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There are a lot of former players putting their money where their mouth is. Not just money, but their time. Beasley owns a team. Tim Howard owns a team. Even a current player like Tyler Adams started a UPSL team in the Hudson Valley.

    We know why Wynalda has this schtick. The US Soccer fraternity has turned its back on Eric Wynalda. Won't hire him for anything. He's very bitter, and spends most of his time throwing other people under the bus.

    So he's not wrong about what he's saying. There are other people who agree, and they're the ones working to fix it. Wynalda just talks.
     
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  21. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does Wynalda have a "say some pointless yet inflammatory shit" reminder every 6 weeks in Google calendar?
     
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  22. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    I’ve seen BVB, Manchester United and Real Madrid play live in the States. I haven’t seen my national team. Due 100% to availability.

    I suspect that meeting Christian Pulisic would be more impactful to youngsters than a slightly better youth coach….only because of the opportunities you articulated that now exist for them in the sport and I don’t dispute that better coaching is important.

    Not a knock on USSF. Just my thoughts.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The scale of the number of kids Pulisic can meet and actually affect is very, very small. I met Tony Gwynn and I am not playing right field for the Padres. Not that I don't think USSF needs to do a better job of PR or game distribution across the states. I agree. (In fact, one of my ideas is for the team to do tiktok challenges on skill work to get kids that love soccer practicing ball skills. They could do the same for encouraging pickup play. It's small, but something).

    But in terms of scaling, and it's hard, what if guidelines were that practice once a week should just be free play? is that a good idea? I dunno. Would everyone follow it? No. But would enough youth teams do it to drive larger scale. Maybe!

    The free play stuff is particularly hard because helicopter parenting and kidnapping paranoia have destroyed pickup culture in a large % of the population. I used to walk to a friend's house and play basketball at about 8; and I was riding my bike miles to play in a park with friends at 12. People would call the cops on my parents now.

    But you can scale if you work with AYSO and USYS. So yeah, everything helps. But I don't know why we wouldn't want the average youth coach to simply be better.

    The coaching education stuff isn't that -- that's at the pro level. Helping pro coaches and academy coaches get better should be a huge boost overall cascade that happens over many years.
     
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If your sole reason for existence is to be a podcaster, you have to say something inflammatory every few weeks for attention. Or else you're irrelevant real fast. You see this from the talking heads on ESPN/Fox Sports/etc. too. Skip Bayless, Colin Cowherd, and all of those guys have to say something nutso once in a while to gain attention.

    There's nothing sexy about "we're moving in the right direction."
     
  25. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Free play should absolutely be a significant part of the coaching culture. Cael Sanderson is the best wrestling coach for many reasons, but one small one is that he actively encourages kids to “try stuff” in practice. This is very difficult in a sport that punishes moves that don’t work out, both physically and mentally. The output is that his wrestlers are more dynamic physically and are more mentally freed up when the big matches come.
     

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