Ukraine v Russia II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Apr 20, 2022.

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  1. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you are reading too much into what Vazquez was doing. It sounds like Vazquez lied about his military experience and used those lies to get him into a position where he could work himself into groups that were fighting. It really sounds like Vazquez was a “war tourist”.
     
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  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suspect what will happen is Ukraine will start to reign in the PMCs and tell them to start operating under the auspices of the Ukrainian military, or, at least, only take funding from Ukraine.

    A similar crackdown happened early in the war where individual soldiers/units in the Ukrainian military/TDF started asking for donations and using that money to buy equipment and weapons outside of Ukrainian logistics. The Ukrainian military came in and told them they could keep fundraising, but they had to go into charities for the entire military, nit just their unit.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I agree he is a tourist - it seems he wasn't actually fighting - at least not since the early days - because he does not have a contract. He appears to have been rejected for a contract. For instance his whole series of posts where he received orders to move out to Bakhmut appears to be highly deceptive. How could he have received orders? How could he have been fighting at Bakhmut when he is not part of any unit? it seems he simply went to these places and took larping footage

    I agree it's not a huge deal but unfortunately harmful to the genuine orgs trying to raise money
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Michael Weiss has an interesting interview on his latest podcast arguing for the Bakhmut strategy. This is one where the contrarians may have been proved right at the end of the day. Personally I think there is sometimes no correct answer to these kinds of questions.

    Ukraine needed to fight the Russians somewhere, and that place ended up mainly being Bakhmut

    There is of course a question as to whether they should have been going for a mobile defence rather than a fixed defence, but that is not without its own risks
     
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  5. cachundo

    cachundo Marketa Davidova. Unicorn. World Champion

    GO STANFORD!
    Feb 8, 2002
    Genesis 16:12...He shall be a wild ass among men
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    NSFW

    Part 2 of the "Battle of the T-Pattern" has dropped.

    1639993542431891457 is not a valid tweet id

    The words "brutal" and "grim" best describe my sentiments as I viewed this.
     
  6. cachundo

    cachundo Marketa Davidova. Unicorn. World Champion

    GO STANFORD!
    Feb 8, 2002
    Genesis 16:12...He shall be a wild ass among men
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It seems to be a road junction of some significance. The tweet says that the position was under attack from 30 RU aircraft prior to the suicide squads showing up.

    IT seems that the position is important enough for UA to retake it several days later. Rinse, repeat. Meat grinder, for both sides
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yeah - this is quite a classic WWII eastern front type engagement.

    Thinly held position gets over run, armoured counter, then withdraw - back to square 1
     
  8. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV


    And then you remember the Nazi party's reaction to Chaplin's visit to Berlin (pre-war obviously).
     
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  9. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    I’m pretty sure all those suicide squads were volunteers. :rolleyes:
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Apparently the text says the T position was lost in a night battle but regained the next day
     
  11. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Apparently LEOs and Challengers have made it to UKR
     
  12. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It's probably going to be a while before we see them at the front. While individual troops know how to drive and fix them, the army leadership needs to figure out how to use them and integrate them and keep them fed and working in a larger scale. That is all in service of the supposed big push Ukraine is planning.

    Speaking of which, I don't know if this is disinformation or not, but the talk from Ukraine in the last week has been about sending that attack not south towards Mariupol as was thought, but straight into the teeth of attacking forces around Bakhmut and Avdiivka under the assumption they have not prepared defenses and they are extremely tired and worn out from the constant attacks.
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Predator got given a medal

    1640360168805244928 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  14. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The first 40 Marders arrived as well.
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Obviously the T-pattern is only a glimpse of the wider war, but it illustrates the issue that offensives need to be at a scale where they can achieve something.

     
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  16. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There was a lot of misinformation from Ukraine during their previous counteroffensive, and it seemed to work in their favor. So, we'll just have to wait and see.
     
  17. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The correct answer is that Italian politics don’t work.

    She’ll be gone in about 18 months, anyway.
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    it seems like there are really only 3 realistic axes of advance for an offensive, and Russia knows what they all are. Of course Ukraine will try to deceive about their real objectives. I know this stuff has been gamed out heavily with the US advisers.

    One obvious thing to do is to try to strike to the south to cut the landbridge and restore sea access. That has gigantic strategic consquences for Russia. Their entire position in the south could collapse due to logistical issues.

    An alternate approach would be to strike in the Donbas, perhaps with the goal to destroy the best russian forces. We don't know where these are.

    Ideally Ukraine wants a switch to mobile warfare where they have the advantage - e.g all the new Bradley IFVs - you want to be engaging in fast mobile operations with them, against russian armour. Not attacking trenches.

    It's also likely that this won't be one strike - it will be multiple efforts.
     
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  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I've been wondering about this

    Many of Russia's best units are involved in these fights, so if you could strike with the right offensive depth you could threaten to trap these forces, and thus commit the reserve mobile russian forces

    I think to do it, you'd need to be prepared to commit a lot of force to break through. You can see the issue with the Russian offensive is that commit 5 tanks here and 5 AFVs here, they all get blown up, then they do the same stuff again - so you end up just getting your stuff wrecked piecemeal.
     
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  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Big Gun on wheels have arrived

     
  21. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Before you can set up larger armored formations, you first need to clear the sky. Especially recon drones and "suicide drones" can be a big problem. Recon drones can reveal amassment of armored forces and suicide drones are a real threat even for the best armored vehicles. The problem is, that there are only a handful of possible zones where you can start large scale operations and those see intense fighting since months. So you have also to deal with mine fields that are especially efficient with adjusted artillery corridors and mid ranged anti tank options. To get the sky clear is imo the only option to even think about breaking through these fortifications in large numbers.

    I would rather consider a large scale operation in the south to break through to the black sea. Withdrawing Russian troops have a big problem with the sea in their back and supply from the vulnerable flanks.
     
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  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is why i think you have to attack with enough depth and scale to engage the enemy at his full strategic depth.

    The russian offensive shows exactly what you are talking about but there is not enough scale or pressure - they get stopped in a narrow thrust and give up. You have to attack in a lot of places all at once - first to infiltrate, then breakthrough forces - and you have to overwhelm the enemy artillery etc rapidly


    IMO this is what they will do, because the success of it creates disaster for the defence
     
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  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
  24. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    And he thinks NATO was a trade pact.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is why I am worried that Germany announced yesterday that it had ordered replacement Leopards and Panzerhaubitzer 2000 for the ones sent to Ukraine - and it was going to take 2 years to get them... we need that every month if the US goes full fash and exits NATO
     
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