Dual nationals who could suit up for the US.

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by juvechelsea, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I don’t understand Mexico’s fan base. They want to see the next generation of players but they don’t have many JJ and diego lainez are great players don’t get me wrong. People need to stop asking for players like ochoa that’s going to try to go to his 6th world cup. If players like Ochoa are going, I don’t see them doing something special in the 2026 world cup. FMF also needs to stop getting coaches from only Liga MX.

    Every daul nat that we have won and lost had happened behind the scenes.
     
  2. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England uses their U21s (actually U23s) as a testing ground. They have more steady competition than in North America & can get together every FIFA window.
     
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  3. RedBaron

    RedBaron Member

    Sep 9, 2001
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Apparently by some people’s standards Kylian Mbappe might not merit a call up if he were English since he hasn’t proven he can do it in the EPL. Exaggerating in his case of course, but I can see where Balogun probably feels his production…regardless of where it is occurring…merits at least token acknowledgement and out reach from senior English National Team staff. Oh well, Southgate and Company’s bumbling may just be to our benefit.
     
  4. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really a stupid thing for Southgate to say. Its not like Ligue 1 is some dregs competition. Ok its not the EPL but its not Turkey either. Good grief I swear sometimes these guys have no clue as to how comments they make might affect their team down the road.

    All he should be saying is the "we have a lot of quality players vying for limited spots and will continue to keep and eye on Flo. He's clearly a talented player"

    Ok sure its coach speak but why give Flo any kind of indication that you aren't interested in him? Unless you honestly don't think he's ever going to be good enough for England.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I'd say Southgate's opinion is echoed by the media and fans.

    Southgate's comment is even more ludicrous when considering he lamented his lack of depth JUST LAST WEEK.

    Example: Marcus Rashford had to pull out of England camp. Did they call up somebody to replace him? No. What about Nketiah, who still isn't cap-tied and remains eligible for Ghana? [Maybe he's hurt. I don't know.] In the Nketiah versus Balogun debate...............they may end up losing both if they're not careful.

    England has learned nothing from the loss of Musiala. Nothing.

    Nobody is saying they should play Balogun or Nketiah over Kane and Rashford right now in 2023. But Kane is about to be the wrong side of 30. You do need to build up young depth behind Rashford. Right?
     
  6. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I don't like the argument of Kylian Mbappe because he's a world-class player. Balogun just started to numbers this session. People act like he has been this good every year. I understand both sides of England and USMNT.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  8. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I do wonder if Balogun burned a bridge with England? That kind of makes the choice the USA or Nigeria.

    He left the England U-21s with an "injury" and seemingly flew himself to Orlando with USSF minimally notified and has been on a "vacation".

    This is the first season that he has played a lot of games and the first season he has scored a lot of goals. The forwards called up to the English team seem to have just as many goals or goals+assists as he does.

    I would understand this response more if there were games after the end of the season. Is he doing this for England MNT attention or does he actually want to play for us?
     
  9. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #3884 Gamecock14, Mar 26, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2023
    The PSG example is kind of funny because Neymar and Messi are also in double digit goals with Mbappe.

    Balogun aint even the highest scoring American in Ligue 1.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think its more like England burned a bridge to him.
    He thinks he's worthy of a senior team call.
    I'm sure those Southgate comments above have been echoed to him in private.
    They don't think Ligue 1 performance means a hill of beans.
    So.................we'll see. We've been there all along to swoop in.

    I mean, based on social media he's been having a grand ole time on vacation in Florida.
    The majority of it having nothing to do with soccer. I'm sure people will be at that El Salvador friendly with binoculars trying to find him. :) If he's at that match, it'll tell us a lot.
     
  11. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I think it's perfectly reasonable that he hasn't received a call up for England yet, given their options up top, all of whom seem to have a track record of production longer than a season.

    But after Southgate's comments expressing frustration about the US poaching Musah, I would have figured he'd at least take some more proactive steps to retain talent, like communicating with someone like Balogun at the very least.
     
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  12. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    It is. Southgate is all over the place however, but the British press is also a meat grinder.

    I watched Flo at Borough a few times. He really didn‘t look like he could make a mark. He could easily have gone the Alex Mighten way IMO.

    Just goes to show that opportunity, style and confidence can do a lot. He could struggle in the P‘ship, where everyone has to be elite physically, but he has a lot of positive attributes. Putting the ball in the net in France is a big one. Again, this isn‘t a Pefok thing. He is above that. He clearly fits a need. I think that a few are getting overly excited about him either. He isn‘t a supreme game changer for us IMO. He is another very good piece if we get him.
    He fits a need. He changes the way teams will have to prepare for us, he can stretch the field and open up space for all.
    He is showing he can score at a very good level. A very, very nice addition.

    Will he be able to withstand CCACAF bully ball and packed D‘s where his space is limited? Can he make a mark when we play solid counter/D type squads? Can he make a mark against physical sides? These are open questions.

    He is a very good get for us. Needed and a very nice boost, but there are questions to be asked.
     
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  13. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    It has been difficult to parse how much our struggles at the 9 have been the people who play there vs the limits on attacking players to which Pepi and others have alluded. I assume it’s a bit of both, and for whatever reason Dike didn’t look particularly threatening vs Grenada. I hope Hudson keeps using the double pivot + creative, attacking 10 (Reyna or Zendejas or Tillman) for a while so we can see if we can get more out of all of our 9s. But meanwhile I’d love to have Balogun in the mix.
     
  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the thing is Southgate could probably keep him on board if he was more proactive, even without calling him up. But Southgate just doesn’t seem like he wants to do so.
     
  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    That reads like an across the board "floor" prediction for every single one of those players lol.

    Balogun as a 21 year old has been more productive than all of those English strikers other than Kane at age 21.

    Pepi is in the midst of a superb bounce back season for a cellar dwelling Groningen.

    Vasquez was an anonymous nothing, I agree, but he's coming out of a breakout season too.

    What happens w/them? No idea, but Balogun is already proven, Pepi is at bare minimum a relevant striker in Europe, and Vasquez is a relevant top tier MLS striker.

    You guys struggled to generate goals against anyone of consequence since what 2019, they'd all be useful to you as depth at bare minimum and in some cases starters (I'll grant I'd take Santi over Vasquez, but I wouldn't take any of your strikers over Pepi or Balogun (if Balogun switches to us) in terms of long term options. Love Lozano too, but he's what, 7 years older than Balogun and 8 years older than Pepi. He's got maybe 1 WC and Copa America left, and no WC's left in his prime (though I expect a bounce back at WC '26).





    I
     
  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't see FMF as great at recruiting at all. I think they're brilliant at scouting, but the evidence is that they simply rely on players ancestral connections, and family pressure and passion for El Tri to lock up signings. They aren't doing tons of leg work in terms of communication and building relationships and nurturing things. They're simply opening their arms once Araujo's and Ochoa's of the world feel the pressure and passion of connections to their country and heritage and simply walk into FMF's waiting arms. Ochoa's experiences w/El Tri were negative, but it didnt matter, one non start at Nations League and familial love for that NT was enough. Araujo waited until El Tri was interested in his talent, and immediately switched.

    What work did they actually do there?

    They actively botched Zendejas.

    As I mentioned before, I have spent decades teaching Latin-American kids and predominantly Mexican-American kids, and 99% of them love El Tri w/a passion and loved to ---- on my USMNT fandom. It's been a fun road coaching them and teaching them, but it would have taken no recruiting whatsoever to get virtually any of them to rep El Tri over the US if given a choice. That's not Georgia or Clemson trying to out compete Alabama for the latest OL or DL recruits signature, that's basically a walk, for El Tri.

    I am very interested to see how more thoughtful they become about the process as they lose some guys like Pepi and Zendejas and as we finally begin to properly develop Mexican-American talent that is of interest to them (these aren't the prospects we were developing in the aughts and early last decade and hence El Tri's growing interest in general, especially as they struggle to fix their own pipeline).
     
  17. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has he considered trying out for the New England Patriots ;)
     
  18. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    May be reading too much into it, but it makes me wonder if just having a sports culture here with NCAA Football, Pro Football, NBA, MLB, and only then Soccer, NCAA Basketball, Hockey etc gives our fed, and coaches so much more exposure to how to handle the press, and player communication both well and not well and as a result maybe our coaches our just better at coach speak than theirs? We still have our dinosaurs too, but even Bilichek knows coach speak. Southgate just sounds like some 1970's coach suggesting a player should feel lucky he's even thought about, let alone called up or communicated with. It's borderline crazy in the world of dual nat recruiting to be that tone deaf.

    What quote you suggested is so painless, and easy to go with instead, and so much more effective for recruiting purposes.

    Instead he just steps on a rake.
     
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  19. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    He had 3 and 3 in about 1100 minutes last year in the Championship after leaving the U23 team he scored 15 goals for in the first half of the '21-'22 season.

    It's not a sudden thing. He was and has been consistently productive at all levels, he's just playing his first full length professional season.

    Btw, his goals aren't against the dregs, his goals are against everyone:
    Scored against Marseille in two separate games.
    Scored against PSG.
    Scored against Lens
    Scored against Rennes
    Scored against Monaco

    Hell he's logged goals against 6 of the top 8 clubs in the standings, with more than 1 scored against Marseille, Rennes, and Monaco.

    Nobody thinks he's Mbappe, we just can note that he's near the top of the goal scoring standings, and he's doing the business against the bad, mediocre and good of the league.
     
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  20. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Does that not happen with most dual nat? Like players that are dual nat with England, Argentina, Mexico etc.. Most of them would like to play for the other country.
     
  21. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I'm not saying that he's not a great player but this is his first great session. If he, has another great session with any team in any top 5 leagues then I can see him in England's first team.
     
  22. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    No, I don't think it does. I think normally you have to put in a lot of work to peel a player off the nation and culture they grew up with. That isn't true in America, I imagine in part because historically, our immigrant history has made all communities connect deeply w/their home countries culturally across a generation or two before enculturation changes that up. It's heightened I think by the fraught historical relationship between Mexico and the US, and the difference in that most Mexican-American kids regularly go back home on vacation to see family, whereas previous immigrant generations couldn't easily just go back to Poland or Italy, or Ireland or Germany or China or Japan etc. Going back to Mexico to visit family keeps those cultural ties much stronger than in other historical situations over the centuries.
     
  23. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    If you were the England manager with all that talent available to you would you kiss the backside of a guy who pulled out of a youth camp with an injury so that he could flirt with another team thousands of miles away? I think Southgate is more irritated than he is negligent here. Either way, it is better for us I think.
     
  24. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I just think there's a difference between kissing the backside and making the most minimal effort to reach out to the player, let him know you're paying attention and have been impressed by his work, and maybe offer him some benchmarks or a timetable for when he might get his opportunity with the national team if he keeps this up.

    Southgate obviously is under no obligation to do that bare minimum, but I'm just a little surprised he hasn't, again given his comments about Musah (here).
     
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  25. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I couldn't still, but I think he's warranted a call up especially after Rashford went down. He's still what 4th or 5th in the pecking order of strikers tops, maybe 6th.


    I just think the coach has handled it very poorly.
     

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