Activate Another Lever and Still Lose to a Madrid Remontada - The Small Teams Thread

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

J-Mezzy said: ↑

I think they downgraded tbh
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Tuchel is a far superior coach. He's playing on another league.

Listen to this absolute nerd:

Whereas only one-way communication is allowed in American Football - from coach to player - Nagelsmann wants football to go one step further.

"This is something that we absolutely need in football,” the German told Münchner Merkur. “Ideally with a connection back, so that the player can communicate with the coaches.

“It's extremely loud in the stadium, you don't have a stop-and-go game like the one in American Football. There is no time-out, there is only half-time to discuss tactical matters with the players.

"You have to go ahead and say: ‘We want that. We want something in our jerseys that players and coaches can communicate with.’”

Nagelsmann argued that football as a sport is sometimes slow to innovate and adopt technology.

”Football is highly technological, but it is also a sport with a long tradition,” he said. “And too often football still hides behind this tradition - and that has to be broken.”
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He also separates players in "quality players" and "mentality players" and thinks they have a different spot on the chess board.

In general, football is a very simple game. There are always young coaches with very bright ideas but trying to implement them is not worth the effort. You need to stick to the fundamentals and get quality players that deviler consistently. Then things take their own path.

Remember when Hitzfeld said Zidane would be an absolute bust and it would backfire on Real Madrid completely. People are impressed by flashy stuff but the best guys do the basic stuff effortlessly and that's what makes them good.

Seoul Villan · Mar 25, 2023

YOUNGSTARS87 said: ↑

We need a change in personnel. Doesn't matter who managing if next season out starting team is still Modric, Kroos, Carvajal, Mendy... and if Benzema is still broken (he probably is finished as a player).

Even with that the officiating nonsense has really killed my desire to watch La Liga.
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Couldn’t agree more. It often feels like I’m watching a rock band that was vibrant and young 20 years ago, still on tour playing the hits and going through the motions. Nostalgia for what we once were but overall disappointing.

meringues · Mar 25, 2023

Nagelsmann seems just the type to bust spectacularly here tbh.

I understand the need for new ideas and new blood but we’ve gotten so used to having two of the best man managers in the business at the helm.

Also Tuchel is an abrasive figure who will scorch the earth behind him but for a club like Bayern he’s someone who is a strong enough coach that he’s on your list — you dance with him once and see how long it lasts. Might win a lot while the relationship burns hot (and fast). Also it’s not as if Tuchel’s players uniformly hate him some guys have spoken highly with no apparent need to do so (a la Rudiger).

Lyra · Mar 25, 2023

O Criciúma venceu o Avaí por 𝟭𝟰𝘅𝟭𝟯 nos pênaltis e se classificou para a semifinal do Campeonato Catarinense. 😯 pic.twitter.com/cON9yFFbk3
— Central das Centrais (@C3ntr4ldetodos) March 22, 2023

One of the matches in Brazil lol
Nearly 30 pks were taken in the shootout, both GKs missed!

J-Mezzy · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

Tuchel is a far superior coach. He's playing on another league.

Listen to this absolute nerd:

He also separates players in "quality players" and "mentality players" and thinks they have a different spot on the chess board.

In general, football is a very simple game. There are always young coaches with very bright ideas but trying to implement them is not worth the effort. You need to stick to the fundamentals and get quality players that deviler consistently. Then things take their own path.

Remember when Hitzfeld said Zidane would be an absolute bust and it would backfire on Real Madrid completely. People are impressed by flashy stuff but the best guys do the basic stuff effortlessly and that's what makes them good.
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Whatever happen to Flick

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

meringues said: ↑

Nagelsmann seems just the type to bust spectacularly here tbh.

I understand the need for new ideas and new blood but we’ve gotten so used to having two of the best man managers in the business at the helm.

Also Tuchel is an abrasive figure who will scorch the earth behind him but for a club like Bayern he’s someone who is a strong enough coach that he’s on your list — you dance with him once and see how long it lasts. Might win a lot while the relationship burns hot (and fast). Also it’s not as if Tuchel’s players uniformly hate him some guys have spoken highly with no apparent need to do so (a la Rudiger).
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It's not so much that players hate Tuchel, he's simply not willing to back away, and if you decide against him you're pretty much done, he's not a very diplomatic person.

As things stand for me nagelsmann is a hype job.

J-Mezzy said: ↑

Whatever happen to Flick
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The idea at Bayern was that they made him bigger than he is, and he basically felt disrespected. It's hard to tell how good he really is for me because it's like playing the lotto once and hitting the jackpot right away.

MiamiNative0722 · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

Nagelsmann shouldn't be anywhere near a job as big as the Real Madrid bench. As things stand he failed at Bayern.
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This is harsh. He managed 37 games this season and lost 3. We have that many losses against Barcelona alone and they played Barca twice too.

Ancelotti failed much worse at Bayern and he was failing at every gig since he left us but we still gave him another chance.

If the only managers we are willing to hire are ones with spectacular success at their current job, there won’t be anyone available to meet the criteria. We’re just going to have to go from novice ex-legend to novice ex-legend. That could backfire enormously on us. Look at the likes of Lampard or Gerrard.

J-Mezzy · Mar 25, 2023

MiamiNative0722 said: ↑

This is harsh. He managed 37 games this season and lost 3. We have that many losses against Barcelona alone and they played Barca twice too.

Ancelotti failed much worse at Bayern and he was failing at every gig since he left us but we still gave him another chance.

If the only managers we are willing to hire are ones with spectacular success at their current job, there won’t be anyone available to meet the criteria.
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Yeah dude was fired due to politics not results

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

MiamiNative0722 said: ↑

This is harsh. He managed 37 games this season and lost 3. We have that many losses against Barcelona alone and they played Barca twice too.

Ancelotti failed much worse at Bayern and he was failing at every gig since he left us but we still gave him another chance.

If the only managers we are willing to hire are ones with spectacular success at their current job, there won’t be anyone available to meet the criteria. We’re just going to have to go from novice ex-legend to novice ex-legend. That could backfire enormously on us. Look at the likes of Lampard or Gerrard.
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Nagelsmann is a novice non legend.

For those that can't understand it, i'm not saying he's shit, but he's firmly in the Lopetegui tier for me.

Doesn't have the personality or the results to really work out in Madrid/Barcelona.

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

J-Mezzy said: ↑

Yeah dude was fired due to politics not results
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I've predicted him getting sacked last year.

I just think people that don't follow Bayern are shocked, to folks that consume the club on a daily basis it's more of an "at last" rather than a surprise.

MiamiNative0722 · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

I've predicted him getting sacked last year.

I just think people that don't follow Bayern are shocked, to folks that consume the club on a daily basis it's more of an "at last" rather than a surprise.
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Anyone could have thought after they lost to Villarreal. That’s not some secret insider information that only you have here. I’ve watched plenty of Bundesliga this year as well. Time and time again you make fallacious appeals to authority as if your opinion is more valuable because of some status you give yourself. Make arguments instead.

Let’s not pretend like Bayern fans were clamoring for his firing. That’s false.

J-Mezzy · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

I've predicted him getting sacked last year.

I just think people that don't follow Bayern are shocked, to folks that consume the club on a daily basis it's more of an "at last" rather than a surprise.
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That doesn’t change the fact that he was fired based on politics and not results. Maybe you knew he style would not fit well with the players, but results wise, his team has dominated every CL opponent this year and are still likely to win the Bundesliga

Doni · Mar 25, 2023

If Bayern now knockout City out of the CL it’ll be seen like a master stroke from their board and Naglesmann forgotten, if they lose it’ll be seen as a fcuk up to get rid of him mid season after knocking out PSG last round.

The fact is he didn’t actually lose any titles this season his team was in the running for a treble and still got sacked so his stock hasn’t really fallen. And Bayern will be paying his full contract which had another 3.5 years to it that’s how much trust they had in him.

hector_br · Mar 25, 2023

Lyra said: ↑

O Criciúma venceu o Avaí por 𝟭𝟰𝘅𝟭𝟯 nos pênaltis e se classificou para a semifinal do Campeonato Catarinense. 😯 pic.twitter.com/cON9yFFbk3
— Central das Centrais (@C3ntr4ldetodos) March 22, 2023

One of the matches in Brazil lol
Nearly 30 pks were taken in the shootout, both GKs missed!
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Lol this happened literally beside my house. Crazy PKs.

Forcamadrid2 · Mar 25, 2023

Zinedine Zidane seems the obvious choice. The Frenchman has been waiting around, presumably for either the France or PSG job, for some time now. Still, is it too risky to hire someone who has been out of a job for two years? And did he do enough at Real Madrid to suggest that he can work his magic at another club - one that he has less of a connection to?

Had to laugh at this statement at goal.com

Lyra · Mar 25, 2023

hector_br said: ↑

Lol this happened literally beside my house. Crazy PKs.
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You watched lol?

Zidane05 · Mar 25, 2023

🚨💣 EXCLUSIVA | @abc_es desvela como Negreira cambiaba a su antojo las clasificaciones de los árbitros. pic.twitter.com/QTDUFIW8jH
— Remontada Blanca (@BlancaRemontada) March 25, 2023

BocaFan · Mar 25, 2023

Doni said: ↑

If Bayern now knockout City out of the CL it’ll be seen like a master stroke from their board and Naglesmann forgotten, if they lose it’ll be seen as a fcuk up to get rid of him mid season after knocking out PSG last round.

The fact is he didn’t actually lose any titles this season his team was in the running for a treble and still got sacked so his stock hasn’t really fallen. And Bayern will be paying his full contract which had another 3.5 years to it that’s how much trust they had in him.
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Most definitely his stock hasn't fallen. Which is why a club like Spurs is dreaming if they think they can land Naglesmann. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out of a job for a while because he can bide his time until a big club comes calling. He will get something like Chelsea or better.

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

Capello was sent home after winning a title. Don't give me "it's not results, it's politics".

J-Mezzy said: ↑

That doesn’t change the fact that he was fired based on politics and not results. Maybe you knew he style would not fit well with the players, but results wise, his team has dominated every CL opponent this year and are still likely to win the Bundesliga
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That's something you can get from a Kovac as well

The domestic press seems to figure that this was just a step too far for Nagelsmann who wasn't ready for the level.

Açores57 · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

Star players and Club stalwarts have certain privileges. That's a standard across the board.

Nagelsmann couldn't assert himself with anybody. The young players did whatever they wanted, the older ones he struggled to come to a concensus with.

You can't be a person of authority and have zero respect from the people that are supposed to believe in you.

At this point it's the club arguably fixing a mistake in the most brutal way possible.
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I don't agree with this, for the most part the young players are thriving under Nagelsmann, minus Gravenberch. The consensus was that Nagelsmann was ready to move on from the older guard (rightfully so) in Neuer and Muller. Problem is these guys have such strong pull within the club like a Pique at Barca they were never going to let that happen.

Bayern are in a good position to win the league again and arguably CL favourites.
Club politics lost Nagelsmann the job, nothing to do with job performance.

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

Açores57 said: ↑

I don't agree with this, for the most part the young players are thriving under Nagelsmann, minus Gravenberch. The consensus was that Nagelsmann was ready to move on from the older guard (rightfully so) in Neuer and Muller. Problem is these guys have such strong pull within the club like a Pique at Barca they were never going to let that happen.

Bayern are in a good position to win the league again and arguably CL favourites.
Club politics lost Nagelsmann the job, nothing to do with job performance.
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I met young Bayern players at a club this year (the names are easy to guess) , a day or two a game. They didn't respect that man worth a good morning.

Certain players arrived to training so late so oftey then reintroduced fixed fines to prevent it.

The team basically walked over the guy.

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

By the way, I'm not a fan of Nagelsmann for certain reasons, but that doesn't belong in this discussion. Personally I don't see him cooperating with stars if he continues the way he thinks of the game and coaching in general.

Açores57 · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

The idea at Bayern was that they made him bigger than he is, and he basically felt disrespected. It's hard to tell how good he really is for me because it's like playing the lotto once and hitting the jackpot right away.
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Bayern played their best football under Flick since Heynckes was managing their treble season 10 years ago.

Surprise surprise, Flick had issues with the board. There seems to be a common trend here.

4x4s · Mar 25, 2023

Açores57 said: ↑

Bayern played their best football under Flick since Heynckes was managing their treble season 10 years ago.

Surprise surprise, Flick had issues with the board. There seems to be a common trend here.
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Zidane had issues with the club as well. Huge surprise, big clubs, millions of euros and personal interests make these jobs very mentally and physically taxing.

Açores57 · Mar 25, 2023

4x4s said: ↑

I met young Bayern players at a club this year (the names are easy to guess) , a day or two a game. They didn't respect that man worth a good morning.

Certain players arrived to training so late so oftey then reintroduced fixed fines to prevent it.

The team basically walked over the guy.
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Nagelsmann has that boy wonder aura around him and I do think Bayern was too big of a move too soon. He's a good manager with a bright future.

But it starts at the top and at the end of the day it was the board who decided to pay 25ME for a manager + a 5 year contract vote of confidence. You don't put together that sort of package for a coach unless you're going to hand over the keys.

Bayern's leadership are at fault for this situation as much as anyone.