Just a thought come to my mind, KDB is no doubt the best AM for years. Kaka at his prime was also something similiar. My question is who is a better player, prime Kaka or De Bruyne. I go with De Bruyne. Kaka's dribbling ability was superior but De Bruyne's vision and passing ability are what end this discussion for me. What's your opinion?
Different players Position is different from role in a team KdB is a game controller. Like Modric, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Kroos. Although some play further back, others more forward. They are all players who have to set the pace and rhythm of the teams. They certainly led their teams in passing average, cross, throws balls. Kaká was an attacking midfielder. More like Nedved, Rivaldo, Thomas Muller. They have to come from behind, approach the strikers, and attack the opposing area, with goals, assists or dribbles. Perhaps kaka/thomas muller and modric/kdb are a more appropriate comparison?
Kaka is the greater "match-winner" and probably has the highest potential level as well, meaning best form of Kaka > best form of KDB in the context of a single match. KDB is more consistent though, and I might choose him over a league season while I'd definitely take Kaka for UCL or knockout tournaments. That said, its hard to gauge KDB because he plays for a City side who so consistently destroys teams with rehearsed offensive actions of a kind which simply didn't exist in Kaka's heyday. Overall, I'd choose Kaka. He is a Balon D'or winner and was considered the world's best at one point, even if for a short time. I'm not sure KDB ever really cracks the top 3 in the world and doesn't have a dominant tournament run like Kaka 2007.
Not the same players but in ideal cases i would slightly go for Kaka because he is a more dynamic player and all around can do everything offensively including final pass But this idea of peak/ prime is a stupid notion. It usually overrates a player by a bit. In 10 years, we might think differently about "peak De Bruyne", especially if he wins ucl Interesting enough, Ancelotti chose Kaka over Zidane for number 10 in his ideal XI (of players that he managed)
Good point that Kaka's abilities fit more tournament like UCL as Kaka showed it in 06/07. But is he really a greater match winner than Kdb??? I don't think so. De Bruyne can attack just as good as Kaka. His passes and vision can hurt opponent more than Kaka's explosive speed. Kaka won Ballon Dor. But he never faced something like 50 goals scorer season. In fact just one season later both Cr and Messi surprassed him when he was still in his prime.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...si-for-pace-and-scored-glorious-goal-20210210 This is Kaka with the ball vs Messi without the ball Maybe there is a alternative universe wherein KDB is able to conjure match winning moments similar to this
I think the answer is probably that at his *very peak* Kaka was better than KDB has ever been, but that Kaka’s very peak was quite brief and that KDB has been a better player on average over the course of his career.
At his “very peak” as you define it how great was Kaka on a all time scale? For me Kaka at his very peak was not even a year,a season or even half a season It was specific games and even portions of games In those specific games Kaka was IMO a top 3 level player of the 21st century Outside of those games I’d put him with Arjen Robben and Luis Suarez Around that level
Peakwise, 06/07 for UCL and maybe 03/04, his first season in at Milan, for Serie A. As I recall, Kaka was already declining physically by maybe even as early at 07/08, but definitely by 08/09. While Milanisti were heartbroken to lose Ricky, many recognized that the transfer fee from Madrid was huge for a player who, if you watched him week in week out for his whole Milan career, was perhaps not-so-subtly losing a step. Kaka wasn't a necessarily a consistent player even in his prime, but his ceiling was enormous in any given match. When you had Kaka on the pitch, no matter the opposition, no matter the occasion, you could win the match. That's how Milan fans felt with him in the lineup.
I remember there was a rumor that Milan knew Kaka would have injury problem later so they decided to sell when they had great offer.
By stats Kaka Peak (2007-08) 30 games, 15 goals and 10 assists (2008-09) 28 appearances, 16 goals and 9 assists. So basically a 25 (G+A) in 30 games. Almost 1 goal or assist per game. Similar numbers to Thomas Muller in a short time (the german has 23 or 24 G+A in 27 or 28 matches in five season). I think Muller and Kaká is a good comparison. Similar position and production. The German played longer at a high level. While the Brazilian had more exposure for having played a great match against United and Liverpool in UCL 07. One must consider Kaka's ability to break lines, with runs, while Muller would rather move without the ball. Different styles, but similar efficiency
Would Thomas Muller have the same efficiency playing for a overrated league team like Milan 2004-2009? I look at Kaka and I think I would honestly say that he has a case for being the highest performing Milan player ever At his very best I mean I would be curious to know which seasons or which portions of seasons of Rivera,Van Basten,Gullit,Savicevic,Weah,Ibrahimovic,Shevchenco,Pirlo etc were definitely a higher tier than Kaka in 2006/07 in your opinion? Would you compare Thomas Muller to any of those aforementioned players? did Thomas Muller in a Bayern shirt ever reach the level of Gerd muller,Beckenbaur,Robben,Ribery or even lewandowski Was he even close? Is there even one single season we could point to where Thomas Muller was the Bayern Munich MVP of the season? I can make Batistuta playing For Fiorentina or even Bierhoff look “statistically comparable” to Absolute peak Ronaldo nazario aswell but I rather not go down that route
I think there are many great players who reached Kaká's level at Milan. Kaká was great, but he had a great situation at Milan too. A strong defense, a dominant midfielder in Europe (Pirlo, Gattuso and Seedorf) and the only option for dribbling and break the lines was him. Something that happens with Vini Jr at Real Madrid (dominant midfielder, only dribbler on the team), obviously Kaká is much better than Vini Jr [more technical, better shooting, better decision making]. But you have a scheme that let both shine comfortably I think it would be very different if Kaka had to share the lead with Robben and Ribery, as Thomas Muller had. Sometimes he would play better than them, sometimes worse. Kaká wasn't a great passer, and apart from his mid-range shot, he wasn't a great finisher either. Kaka from 2006-2008 is a great player, but I don't know if he's above the peaks of Robben, Ribery or Muller. And just fit the right team More or less a Thomas Muller with different style and shorter career
What’s with the 2006-2008 timeframe? What was impressive about Kaka 2007/08 that you would attach this to his absolute peak Stats? No one familiar with his career would point to that as being real prime era Kaka He was Serie A MVP in 2003/04 and he did that with statistics you would rightfully assume(in this era at least) are underwhelming but he was absolutely unplayable Kaka was 21 years old then and Serie A was very arguably still at its highest point And he was perceived as being a higher level performer as prime versions of Francesco Totti and pavel nedved Not the mention his legendary teammates like Pirlo,shevchenco or even Rui Costa Kaka was a standout player amongst them Can you tell these many players 21 year olds who could do this? Kaka needn’t the passing range of a ATG playmaker(he was a better passer then muller anyways) We’re talking about a player who could singlehandedly break down the tactics of some of the best teams of his era with the ball at his feet If Kaka and muller played in the same team nobody would even remember who muller was
Top 10 players of the 2000s decade according to fourfourtwo Ronaldinho Zinedine Zidane Kaka Thierry Henry Cristiano Ronaldo Xavi Ronaldo nazario Andres Iniesta Zlatan Ibrahimovic Lionel Messi https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-50-best-players-of-the-2000s#section-10-1
Kaka had sprints that call attention. It was always beautiful to see him running in open field. But in terms of productivity we have divergent opinions. I saw Kaká at his peak being overshadowed by Adriano and other players in the Brazilian national team. If I'm not mistaken, he was never a top scorer or assist leader in any championship For not being a great passer, nor a great finisher (with the exception of his mid-range shot), Kaká could be overshadowed by creative players, as happened in Brasil NT. Something he didn't face at Milan, several creative players sharing the field with him Maybe if an healthy Robben was in a team with an impenetrable defense, and a dominant midfield, and he was the only attacking alternative on this team, it would be him with so many individual trophies I think kaka's numbers are consistent with his production.He has his fans because of these sprints. But in terms of individual quality, I would put it on the same shelf as Robben, Ribery, Di Maria, Muller, etc. Great players, but not brilliant He was just lucky enough to catch a good situation at Milan in a vacuum season before CR7 and Messi came along
I have to say I disagree quite markedly. But that's okay. We all have our opinions. But Kaka and Muller are such different players in almost every way that there's little to gain from really even comparing them. I rate Muller very highly. What makes him such a great player to me is his intelligence, adaptability, longevity,consistency, his attitude and spirit, his team-first attitude, and his mastery of the fundamentals; he is a great player who is such an asset to have on a team season after season. Kaka, rather, was bonafide superstar - a force of nature. At his best, he was unstoppable and briefly recognized as best in the world. To say he was a poor passer and finisher is...well... just not quite right. In general, he was not super consistent, but he could play passes like the best of them, and finish like the best of them too, and did so in many instances. Kaka is a deserving Ballon D'Or winner while you can't even make a solid case for Muller ever even being in the top 5 really. But that is the difference between the two; Kaka burned extremely brightly then dimmed, while Muller has been harnessing a consistent flame for almost 15 years. At their peaks though, there is no comparison who was more dominant.
Kaka was such a dynamic player that it's easily him honestly. De Bruyne doesn't decide games the way Kaka used to. Just a clear gap in talent between the two.
I appreciate longevity over short peaks so KdB. But I agree two different players. Someone like Kaka or even Nedved would not win Balons anymore after the duopoly of Messi and CR occurred. KdB or a Yaya before him would not be considered. Kaka was lucky to be one of the last to win it. Not fair to bring up the Balon.
Does peak Kevin de Bruyne win the ballon dor back in 2007(hypothetically) 2007 ballon dor candidates Ricardo Kaka 24 years old Completed a ATG champions league campaign Between 1992/93 and 2009/10 only Ruud Van nistelrooy Scored more CL goals(12) goals than Kaka did in the 2006/07 CL Scored Goals in the R16 QF SF Final Outside of goals was a legendary ball carrying threat and a gifted dribbler with a particular elegance to his playing style Cristiano Ronaldo 21/22 years old Unanimous/undisputed best player in England Top dribbler in the champions league 82 - Lionel Messi has completed more dribbles in the CL this season than any other player since his debut. Magician. pic.twitter.com/hAtSfV872M— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) June 6, 2015 Lionel Messi 19 years old Scored the best goal in the 21st century(until now arguably) Best dribbler in Europe’s top five leagues Hat trick vs Real Madrid Copa America best player shortlist(top 3 with Robinho and riquelme IMO) You talk about pavel nedved but I want to know which season of KDB would win the ballon dor vs these seasons?
wooooow. Iniesta #8 and Messi #10 for 2000s... that's beyond ridiculous. Makes the whole list an absolute trash.