Calling a timeout during a game.Was I wrong?

You don’t seem wrong to be dismayed. Why did you not talk to the referee during the timeout? Seems that would have been appropriate.

As far as pointing at the score after the game as response to anything from the opponents side — I think that is the part you would like to redo.

 

I used to keep the clock for all our games at Bridgeland. As of last year, there was no such thing as a coach-led time-out. They didn't even have them in the scorebook. If there were Coach led time outs, I would have had to keep track of them, and be given a number. But that didn't exist at all. I knew as the clock keeper only the referee can stop the clock, and he's only allowed to stop the clock for injury or substitution. I'm pretty sure you can't stop the run of play for a sub, it has to happen in a stoppage but I'm not a ref and don't know for sure.

 

I understand. I probably would have done it like you. But refs are supposed to let coaches call timeout. I think in hindsight a good option would going and quietly asking the ref, politely: "Respectfully -- WTF?"

 

You'd have to check the rulebook for whatever league you're in. Some leagues have bizarre rules that most coaches don't know about.

That aside, the ref sounds like a ********ing idiot. Arguing with a ref rarely works out well, though. I always tried to treat refs with respect and encourage my players to do the same. However, once I got into with a ref (more his fault than mine). Was an end of season tournament game. The league we were playing in let us sub on all dead balls (which with youth soccer is what you most commonly see). So I'm doing what I always do, but this guy is applying pro rules - you can only sub on dead balls where you have possession. I go, "those aren't the rules we played with all season". He claims these are special rules for the tournament. I pull up the rules and prove him wrong. He gets very pissy, sees me as challenging him. I tell him I'm not challenging him, these are 8 and 9 year old kids and they need to rotate. They get tired.

Suddenly, he starts calling everything against us. He whistles a penalty when there is none (opposing coach was bewildered also). When the other team misses the penalty, he claims my team encroached (my wife's cousin was recording the game so I could go back and watch the video which clearly showed nobody moved an inch). This continues. I'm getting livid, this ********ing moron is taking it out on 8 and 9 year olds because of some petty bullshit. We did lose, thanks to him. I file a complaint to the league office with video analysis and the testimony of the opposing coach. Guy never refs for our league again. So at least there was some revenge.

 

Ethos, I have coached here in Houston since the 2000-2001 school year, you actually know this about me, I have never seen a time out called in Varsity and or sub-Varsity soccer in my years coaching. Certainly never even heard of one!
Then in any local HFA men's league following FIFA standards, no timeouts in the beautiful game. So your surprise that went to disbelief and eventually frustration is understandable. No worries.
Look, the odd underlying theme to our American soccer refs is that they think they matter. They like to fancy themselves as large and in charge! So unlike when getting assigned a ref from say Scotland, Uruguay or Nigeria, where the ref is from a culture that is very intimate with association football and focuses on letting the sport shine. Certainly for youth players, getting the calls correct and let the young player enjoy their football. A good ref should always want the focus to be on having a good soccer match that is easy on the eyes.

 

#1 thing I've learned from coaching youth soccer for 10 years: there's a lot of asshole parents out there. Ironically, some of the biggest asshole parents are those that know absolutely nothing about soccer.

 

^^^This

On top of decades coaching in inner city Houston, I of course coached my sons from YMCA ball when little up to club ball for my Marine son and oddly enough some parents are just delusional on how good they imagine their son. Like why is he not playing coach...well he can barely kick a soccer ball straight for 10 yards and thinks running is a chore. Me, well the World needs tennis players ya know Sir.

 

in terms of the ref, i don't know if i'd protest, but i would drop a written dime on them to the ref board that controls who gets games. cut the emotional stuff out and just list the basic rules misunderstandings. you don't want to get into the debatable where it gets sidetracked on he said she said. get into, she allowed a timeout in a non-water break game. she handed a drop ball to the wrong team after allowing the break. she stopped the run of play to permit a sub. those sort of things. sounds like a decently advanced age group, to be nice, this person needs to go back to ref licensing and do it over. i actually did some youth center work as well as some line work at all age groups, and while you have to pass a test, it's a lot of stuff and you can only test so much. but this person needs a reboot at best.

i have had games where i didn't shake hands because the strategy seemed to be to chop me and others down all day. the next time i might be fine with the same opponent.

i am ambivalent on your actions. in part because i think sometimes either a strong ref can calm things down, or conversely sometimes you need someone to voice frustration as a release valve for worse happening. only red i ever got in an 11 man game my college coach was stoic about the opposing keeper chopping me down on consecutive breakaways without a PK call. and my captain -- who we didn't vote for -- never interceded for us ever. they didn't say anything or get in someone's ear. so i went and confronted the ref and called his professed ignorance "bullsh*t" so loud they probably could have heard it at the dorms at that away game school. maybe if coach is yelling i keep my mouth shut. i don't like parents or coaches who constantly yell but well meaning use of that, to me, once or twice, de-escalates it for your players. they know you have their back. they don't have to do self help. the players play the games. i got suspended 2 games for that one. so he didn't have me for the loss next time.

that being said, too much of that creates an overall escalation. and in school and select sports you will probably see that team again that year or the next. so one should pick their battles wisely and maybe be conciliatory later. if it can happen. the 2-0 taunt is nearing the line as you will see them again likely, and i believe in playing hard but not providing bulletin board material for the next one. soccer can be a close run thing and you don't want to incite the opponent without a tactical plan. personal experience the team you own 3-0 this time may be a 2-1 or 1-1 work rate fest next time.

i can have a mouth though i normally know to contain it within limits and only ever got that one red. to me all this is a balancing act. you want the calls the next time a ref runs a game. you want them to see what is happening. yelling without explanation is sometimes less useful than saying watch out for __________. however in this circumstance it's just bizarre and off the rule book and they need to go back to ref orientation and get tested. i say that not to be a jerk but surely that will only multiply across games. and to me refs with blinders or issues this bad can be abused. maybe the opposing coach sees some sort of ignorance or timidity, ok, let's ask for ___________. you lose the point of the reffing function which is keep things under control -- including the emotional tenor -- and more or less within the spirit of the rules.

i have said things i regretted -- and not gotten in trouble -- far worse than what you did. i'd one hand other hand it. try not to do it again but people say frustrated things when frustrated. maybe try and make up if they can be reasonable. if not, is what it is. guy on my team in a similar game where opposing fans from a team in another state were shouting "go back to texas" (when we were up 5-0 no less), turned and kicked a ball at the parents on the sideline, like a shot on goal. bunch of parents diving and chairs falling over. i have seen worse. heck, i once saw an opposing team in a hispanic league game chase the referee out of the complex. like literally to the surface streets in the surrounding neighborhood.

 

re kids who couldn't kick a ball straight U5, i was probably the worst kid on my team that age. i was my college team's MVP. contrary to the "no participation trophy" crap, there is zero correlation, and those little trophies may keep you going til you get better at something you enjoy. some of the most arrogantly gifted U10s i knew in select never played a JV game much less varsity. and i am talking kids on teams like the texans in 5th grade. i was a fairly raw speedy 5th grader but it turns out speed is a more transferable skill over time, vs. "skill" at U10 needs to be 5 notches up at U18.

similarly, i have pretty good hand-eye but as a 5 year old had trouble catching in t-ball. parents had their fun/venting and that was my only baseball season. i played 3 sports in HS and got cut from a 4th at tryouts -- after the coach asked me my name -- only because the soccer coach found out and intervened. who knows what happens if parents don't give me crap for an error in U5 baseball. it's nuts. what matters is can you play at like age 12. by U10 i was a gifted athlete. it's silly over-emphasizing can they play or catch at age 5. it means little.

you see similar stuff in the age group records for youth track and field. the front half of HS age groups, U14-16, that's when you recognize pros from the youth records. by U18-U20 it starts to become a pro showcase. but there are almost no future pros holding youth records from junior high or elementary ages. it's impressive but they haven't even had to run a HS level time yet. and you realize for all the glory cast on them then, it is no indicator who is the olympic future.

the kid who won one of the TX HS high jumps at state was jumping 5' 8" two years ago and wouldn't have won a JV meet in my tough district growing up. his 10th grade 4x400 team ran slower than my junior high team did to win district. but he was like jumping 7' 1" or 2" two years later. a little growing up and coaching matters that much.

a lot of my affection for soccer was simply liking being outside in the grass and woods and grass and mud that age. a lot of what keeps you going on the field after practice doing running or working on technique, is passion. the people ripping on participation trophies miss that. and while competing does matter, it tells you nothing definitive until HS age. i know good younger age players who became useless as play sped up and they were slow or unathletic. juggle kings usually. i know athletes who never get the technical down enough. contrary to the bs being sold some of the game is genetic and some is do you just love playing, or practicing, and that in fact may go back to did you enjoy U5 and did that participation trophy and the one goal you scored in the last game make you feel appreciated enough to come back. and maybe score 15 next season. which is what i did. and a chunk of that is i liked being outside on a soccer field and the soccer parents weren't as big of jerks when i made a mistake that young.

i am with the norwegians on this. we should take sport seriously but only past some arbitrary point in the early teen years. before then it should be skill building, having fun, and letting you find out if you like the sport enough to put in the hard work when no one is watching or pushing. in my experience a chunk of the kids pushed hard burned out or lacked the attributes to keep progressing. they were lionized as U10 because they could juggle 100 times and hit an accurate pass but couldn't run a 40 yard under 6 by HS and ended their career at JV, around the point everyone can hit that easy pass accurately and it comes about threading needles, running past people, hitting the shot upper V.

one of my best friends growing up stopped playing soccer -- give or take 1 adult season i prodded out of him -- after graduating juco. he was all-state and then award winning in juco. he didn't enjoy it. he didn't finish college in D1 much less go pro. i think he'd have been all-american. he didn't care. that matters. the difference between him and I is you could stick me on a grass field with a ball and no one out there on a nice day, and i am happy. i smell the grass and look at the trees, run around some barefoot, then start putting in the work.

this is not necessarily saying don't reward youth excellence. just don't pretend it means all that much in the greater scheme. most kids being applauded in elementary school aren't baby messis or wynaldas if you see how well they played that age. there is good then there is awesome.

 

along those lines one of my concerns is HD youth seem to churn out short hyperprofessional moderate skill robots. which is like a USL or college mold really. solid and semi technical but nothing special and perhaps a little short and slow. when what you really want is gitau who they lost to god knows what.

 

related point, my "2 years later" track and field point is why i think varsity HS coaches do their kids a disservice by emphasizing fitness or scrimmage as opposed to spending the roughly one total year they have with their players (3 mos. a year x4) to improve them technically. regardless if they get the select stars or not. to me emphasizing work rate tactics dooms their teams to being second rate hustle teams. they will occasionally surprise with work rate, but their technical limits will set their ceiling. so work on the roof height while you are at it.

i had this debate with the current track coach at my college alma mater, who was touting some particular incoming freshmen to me. to me taking some district winner who comes in running 10.5 and putting him on the team is easy. the real coaching test is taking a kid who shows up running an 11 in the 100m and getting him to 10.2 by the end. you put him with the star and you have a relay team. you have 30 guys on the team, put your energy in all 30 because you have 4 years to do something with the raw goods showing up. maybe you have a 7' 2" high jumper hidden someplace. but that requires actual coaching and not just roll the ball out team selection........

it's a team game and a lot has to do with the investment put into the last kids making the lineup or first off the bench. that's who scores your winner off the bench or blows the game as the weak link. when you have a tense 0-0 game and an injury issue it matters if you have turned bartlow into anything. yes, many days you want the star player winning games. but a key few they have an equivalent and it comes down to someone else pulling a surprise. if everything is in the star basket you're out of luck. invest in the 9th, 10th, 12th, 15th players.

 

Tolkien called.
He wants his typewriter back Juve.

 

Juve actually has solid insight amigo. For years now. I read each of his posts.
However sometimes he has posts like the book War and Peace can't match.

 

whatever. someone who takes seriously being in the coaching profession should see a kid who makes their team -- i mean you gave him a jersey -- being unable to kick a ball straight as a personal failure. you have 4 years to fix that. this was my point about coaches of weaker teams should maybe work on technique instead of fitness and scrimmage.

 

re ethos i think there is something psychologically off about asking "was i being a d*ck" then responding to feedback by being one to me. maybe that's your answer right there. is that short enough? kind of a pattern i am seeing here of being gratuitously this way when it wasn't necessary either time.

my blunter assessment is when you win 2-0 you were by definition not cheated. it sounds like the other team were the ones cheating. you won anyway. they were bad sports after. only an idiot yells at the team they just beat for being bad sports. you calmly walk your team off and bank your "w." you enjoy your win instead of squabbling with losers. you get your team out of there before any further silliness arises. you do nothing to risk that being taken away. you do nothing they can put on a corkboard for next time. you ask the ref to do her job and put a sock in any postgame jawing by the other side. you gonna card them?

coaching 101.