British Football Best XIs (1863-1939)

I wasn't sure which thread would be best, but thought this one overall @CristianoPuskas - I've noticed Sam Bartram's top 12 post-war goalies in the English league as of late-ish 1978, with a suggestion he'd have ranked Swift over his childhood hero Hibbs too seemingly

Of course it's just one opinion (albeit he was a goalie himself, and came 2nd in the FWA Player of the Year voting 1953/54 - I posted about that yesterday on another thread about the English league). To illustrate that, I guess this is relevant too as Jimmy Murphy picked a combined Man Utd XI that had Stepney in goal, rather than Gregg who is on Bartram's list

 

No problem. Yeah, I guess if you think any particular comment would add to this thread significantly it could be worth scanning something in (if that would be fine copyright wise) or just quoting/summarising a certain section from a certain page, but don't feel you have to add something from the book just for the sake of it of course.

 

Trainer was Welsh.

There were a couple of Grays (Bob and John) playing as forwards in English football during the 1890s but they were both Scottish.

 

I thought it might be worth adding these observations/opinions about Sweden's 1948 team, as it's off the main topic but can be related to when the best players/teams (moreso the latter) played in the years before 1950....

They can seem like contradictory opinions (but not necessarily - top 4 doesn't mean 4th) - one from an Irish source (in the Irish Independent on August the 11th 1948) saying no better football had been played at Wembley than that which the Swedish team played in the Olympic Semi-Final vs Denmark, and one stating that Bernard Joy's opinion was that if the Sweden team played in the English league for a season they'd be in the top 4 teams:




EDIT - Of course, comparing the play of a whole team is different to comparing the qualities of individual players. How 'educated' the Irish journalist was on Wembley games, how old he was and suchlike would be relevant too. Here is Bernard Joy's Wikipedia page:
Bernard Joy - Wikipedia

These are pages relating to Sweden vs England games around that time
England Match No. 238 - Sweden - 19 November 1947 - Match Summary and Report (englandfootballonline.com)
England Match No. 246 - Sweden - 13 May 1949 - Match Summary and Report (englandfootballonline.com)
Maybe this Wolves vs Norrkoping clip (featuring Gunnar Nordahl and Nils Liedholm for example) is a little bit relevant and interesting here even too

 

Yeah, also without the defender Nordahl, plus Carlsson and Rosen for example (professional players not being able to play as per Swedish FA policy), though they did have Jeppson and Skoglund (who would later play in Italy themselves) in the 1950 World Cup squad that weren't in the Olympics team for example.

 

My own team, including another two "world best XI" 1863-1939

British XI:
---------------------------- Hardy
---------------- Crompton ------- Arnott
-------- Crabtree ----- Raisbeck ------- Needham
Meredith -- Bloomer -- GO.Smith -- A.James -- Morton

Bench: Ross, Hapgood (system against him), Dean, Bastin


Continental Europe XI:
------------------------ Zamora
-------------- Sesta ------- Quincocés
-------- Orth ------ Káďa ------- Samitier
Konrad -- Meazza -- Sindelar -- G.Sárosi -- Puc

Bench: Planicka, de Vecchi, Nausch, Schlosser


South America XI:
---------------------- Tesoriere
--------------- Nasazzi ------- da Guia
-------- Andrade ----- Monti ------- J.Evaristo
Peucelle -- H.Scarone -- Erico -- Sastre -- Orsi

Bench: Friedenreich, Piendibene, Leónidas, Romano

 

Nice work mate.

When I had that subscription to Britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk I did see a piece (that I didn't post) by a Scottish fan in the late 30s I think, saying Matthews was the best ever (or best he knew) British winger, suggesting other Scots would disagree and point out how to stop Matthews, but saying "that's the thing though - nobody can do it" or something like that and pointing out that the likes of Morton and Jackson sometimes had bad games (that he saw himself).

Obviously Meredith has the longevity over Matthews if stopping at 1939 though anyway.

I guess Scopelli's opinion (to reference what CP posted on his thread about old-timer opinions) would have Garcia in for Orsi, and Nolo Ferreira in for possibly Sastre...but I'd understand anyway why you wouldn't just "take his word for it" (especially if it goes against some other opinions and sources) - I suppose he would know Orsi quite well in Italy as well as Argentina, but it can be others would have a preference for Orsi in any case (just like others would have Pele as the best ever by 1963/1964 and he clearly didn't).

 

Given the Newcastle connection, this would be the Scot Jimmy Gordon. Later served as long-term coach under Clough and Taylor at Derby and Forest.

 

I think of Jimmy Gordon and Duncan Edwards, maybe Willis Edwards as contemporary to him