MLS Flavors of the week 2023 edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 24, 2022.

  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting list to look at as we think through who should get called up for the April Mexico friendly.

    I assume we’ll see lots of the MLS World Cup vets on the roster, but lots of room for different players outside of those guys.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you it’s very unlikely because CPL will never quite catch up with MLS. And I would never force the three teams out either. But it’d of course be nice to have three more US based MLS teams what academies and what not.

    My understanding is that Canada could force the three teams to leave MLS if they wanted, but I don’t think they’d ever do so as that wokld be very self sabotaging.

    I will say though there is TV money to be had in Canada. Hockey is obviously a much bigger deal there but their NHL tv deal is I think fairly comparable to the American one. Soccer will probably of course never approach the same level of popularity in Canada as hockey.
     
    Three and Three repped this.
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I get it. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Glad.

    Glad just turned 26. Trusty is about to turn 25. They're actually pretty close in age.

    I think Trusty's success at that championship level right away may have surprised some people. I personally think Glad is also more than capable of performing at that level. [I get that Trusty was inexplicably purchased by Arsenal and then loaned to Birmingham]

    But as others have said, will he get paid more to stay in MLS.
    A guy like Matt Hedges would have been more than capable of playing at that level. More than capable. Yet again he's at the top of the list there of USMNT-eligible performers in MLS. But pay raise, pay raise, pay raise....................[Ironically which is why FCD cut him loose. He had a clause in his contract for a major pay raise this year. They didn't want to pay it. Toronto was willing to pay him more than FCD.]
     
  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think someone like Glad could be the next Zimmerman. Not saying that he will be, but there are definitely going to be MLS guys that surge over the next few years and put themselves in the national team picture.
     
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I've said before, I don't really rate G+ as a stat. Other metrics tell a very different story in a lot of those cases. So take it w/ a grain of salt.

    But they are rating Glad well too, in addition to a fair amount of cb options. I think it's going to be important the next few years we find a little bit older one(s) that can add to the depth. Because we can be caught up in the allure of youth, but that's often a late blooming position. They aren't all, or maybe even most, going to be like Neal and Richards. Trusty was on the radar early, but look how late he re-entered it, just by going to Europe, and raising his profile.

    Which one of these older guys are going to translate, like Zimmerman, Besler, Cameron, sort of Miles, Ream, maybe Trusty, etc. Which ones aren't. It's important not to give up on Kessler. He played pretty well in Mexico for the u-23's. I'd like to see Bye tried as a speed CB because, while a good player, I don't think he has a future at fb at his age & mobility for that position. In addition to the NE guys, the Seattle ones are pretty interesting too. Ragen's a pretty well-rounded guy and beat out an Ecuadorian int'l. Then you have Atencio, who recently only turned 21. But he's still not been fully integrated. Whenever he's on the field lately, he looks pretty good to me. And he could be switched to CB full-time from where they typically play him, which is DM.
     
  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I might be alone on this. Zimmerman and Miles are the MLS guys.
    We have a plethora of guys in Europe that lead the pool (Richards, CCV, McKenzie, EPB, Trusty, etc. etc.)

    So if I'm looking at domestic guys for the April camp (to go with Miles/Zim), I want it to be the younger, higher ceiling players or new guys. I noticed that Jalen Neal wasn't on the U20 roster for their upcoming camp. Have the Galaxy told the USSF that he won't be available for the U20WC? Maybe Jackson Regan as a new face. Those kinds of guys.

    I get that Justen Glad and Henry Kessler are better right now than them. But are they 9th and 10th on our senior CB depth chart?
     
  7. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Teams do have to sell those rights if they aren't going to use them when another team wants to sign the player. Its not written into the rules but its happened multiple times for 75k and its happened multiple times.

    Just pointing out your interpretation of the Suarez example is off. You were acting like MLS missed out on Suarez because of the rule and the Sounders not giving up his discovery rights. Your characterization of the situation was false.

    MLS and other media outlets used Lodeiro's friendship with Suarez to write some articles and talk up MLS. Suarez went back to Uruguay to play before retiring. To my knowledge there was never any serious talks to bring him to MLS by any team which would show mutual interest by both parties.

    Bitching about the name of the mechanism is just dumb and old. We all know what the mechanism is for, its not about literally discovering some unknown player. Its just calling dibs on a player for first shot at signing them and in the current MLS if the player wants to go somewhere else you get 75k in GAM.

    I don't have much of an issue with how the rule currently works. Teams get to call dibs on a few players they are interested in signing in the near future. If another team beats them to the punch they get 75k. Its not a major hinderance in signing players but enough that can help a team try to sign the player they have been working on first.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I take all metrics with a grain of salt. They all say something, but nothing is definitive.

    That said, while I think G+ misses a ton of stuff, particularly off ball, I do think the methodology is far more sound and informative than things like Sofascore or Fotmob ratings.

    It fills a couple of key gaps in valuation that makes it a valuable contrast -- things like the actual value of pass, not overrating goals or assists, etc. So I like to use it at minimum in comparison.

    It's also super nice because it breaks down value. Why did someone get a high fotmob score? We can't see the breakdown.

    But Justen Glad? He's +.45 in interrupting (tackles, interceptions) and +.27 in receiving, which might be on set pieces? You can see the pluses and minuses here -- interrupting isn't the whole of defense and +.27 in receiving isn't likely to continue ... but I also get to see the why and determine that, which I really like. Rather than seeing a monster number for say, CCV and not realizing 80% of the value is in uncontested passes.

    Or you can see with Thiago Almada, where about 1/4 of his value has been in his monster free kicks -- 3 goals! -- relative to average (which actually seems low) but that half is in passing (those Wiley goals) and a quarter in his dribbling.

    Roldan and Morris are mostly valued in their receiving -- something often ignored by fans -- and so on.

    In terms of CBs, I think it is awfully tough to tell who becomes Tim Ream or Walker Zimmerman.

    I think you can put a slight edge on those guys with better height and athleticism, but in the end, so much of it comes down to decision making and reading the game. There's minimums on athleticism and certainly at club level on skill ... but at the end of the day, the differentiator at that position is far more often mental.

    And we can't really see that well, nor can we see who is going to level up there.

    I think where there's a bonus to development against playing against better opponents, CB might be the position that benefits the most, or at least a lot more than in attack. The instinctual sense of "can I get to that" is vitally important.
     
  9. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a pretty specific fit, the mid-career MLS high earner. Somebody has to want you and guarantee you the money and be a place you want to go.

    Some money ball team in the top 5 might start a trend but I'll have to see it to believe it. Leeds may get relegated with a bad GK and they probably could have grabbed Blake from Philly for a fraction of what they paid for largely inconsequential attackers in January.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  10. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Nice to see White in there
     
    gogorath repped this.
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure why you say Trusty was "inexplicably purchased"? Unlike Glad, Trusty has CB next level qualities as far as dribbling and passing. He is a more aggressive and effective 1v1 defender and as we saw in Colorado, is equally effective in a 2 CB system or as an outside CB in a 3 CB setup. I remember going back and forth between McKenzie and Trusty as to the higher ceiling when they were both playing for Philly. Trusty is also a legit 6'3".

    Jalen Neal looks like a younger version of Trusty and is also promising as far as next level on-ball qualities especially passing.
     
  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rules do not require you to do so as long as you are willing to make an offer yourself. Seattle did not want to relinquish his rights because they were hoping to sign him later. One of the reasons he didn’t want to come to Seattle was because it was unclear if they would make the playoffs, which wouldn’t have been an issue in the future,

    There were in fact very serious talks to bring Suarez to MLS. One of the stumbling blocks is he didn’t want a long layoff before the World Cup and wanted to ensure that he was going to a team likely to make a deep playoff run.

    It was reported in multiple places, but Lodeiro made the hard sell to bring Suarez to Seattle but he wouldn’t bite. Suarez wanted LAFC and that wasn’t workable. And Seattle didn’t want to give up his rights because it was the thought at the time he would reconsider MLS in 2023.



    I don’t think that in a global market for talent it makes sense for teams to call dibs on players. It’d be one thing if you were using it on unknown guys and you were rewarding teams for their scouting. Teams should be able to sign whoever they want subject to the salary cap rules.

    And again a team is not required to give up the rights, though in many cases they do.
     
    IndividualEleven repped this.
  13. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think many forget that McKenzie and Trusty were starting together ion MLS for Philly as 17-18 year olds in 2018. Yes, it's "only MLS" yet that is nothing to scoff at that two teenage centre backs were starting in a first division for a playoff team.
     
  14. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Glad is anything like Sands as a CB. Sands's biggest problem is lack of physicality for the position. I don't see those problems with Glad. He's a much more imposing figure.
     
  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1190 IndividualEleven, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    Sands outweighs Glad by at least 25lbs. But physicality had been a issue for both of these guys. Glad had long been very lightweight for a CB. In the early part of his career, he was listed in the 140lb range. The highest I now see for him is 159lb. That's still light, but not dramatically so. And over the years he has improved in his ability to handle the confrontations. Sands had needed to learn how to do deal with the physicality of the grown man's game. At 22, he isn't even at mid-career for a d-mid/cb. His size, 6'1" 185lb, should give him a good base to enter that phase of his career.
     
  16. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's pretty dramatically light for a CB for me. Talent is more important than size for sure but that is way different than saying size doesn't matter. It sure as heck does.
     
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  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I'm giving Justen points for effort. :) But yes, he still has a slight frame for a CB.
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1193 thedukeofsoccer, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    Sands is not near 25 lbs heavier than Glad. I'd be surprised if he weighed more at all. This is not an emaciated guy:

    [​IMG]

    I'd also make an educated guess he's taller than Sands. Those listings for players in MLS who sign as youths are totally outdated. The same thing happened w/ James himself, until he moved to Rangers. IIRC, he was listed at 5'10 or 5'11, and like 146 lbs, until he left (FBRef still lists him at 5'10). Now it's 6'1, 185. These #'s are pretty meaningless for comparison. Use common sense/eye test. Even w/out that, we have some supporting stats to indicate Glad is or plays pretty big. For one, Glad's scoring 2-3 goals per season the last few years. Sands has never scored in his entire league career. For another thing, Glad's aerial %'es are solid for a CB. Sands has posted pretty high & low #'s. Hard to compare there because Sands often plays DM.

    Size may be an issue for Sands at CB. He's selling different things, like ball-playing & awareness. I hardly think it is for Glad. If he doesn't succeed, it's because he can't adapt to the speed of play, offensively and defensively, when it comes to quicks and alertness. Didn't love him for the u-23's. Kessler was better. But it was in the heart of covid. So there were a # of factors that could have hindered him. If he maintains excellence, we'll have to give him another shot. Maybe he's one who warrants a shot in April. Otherwise definitely Jan camp if he keeps it up.
     
    Tom Collingsworth and 50/50 Ball repped this.
  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1194 IndividualEleven, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    The listed weights and heights are what they are. And both players' weights have been updated over the years.
     
  20. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So by that logic, Sands was 5'10, 146 until he moved to Scotland. Then in his early 20's he grew 3 inches and gained 40 lbs. :D

    I said the same thing about Sands at the time when he had these absurdly low listings. Common sense was he grew after he was 15, when he signed, and they measured/weighed him.

    Early listings, by definition, aren't what they are. Players are what they are, in reality. In no reality is Sands taller and 30 lbs heavier than Glad, or just about any adult CB.

    Main idea here is that size isn't really an issue for Glad. Other things may be though.
     
    Tom Collingsworth and 50/50 Ball repped this.
  21. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Bottom half in the top 5 leagues, especially outside the EPL, is becoming more and more like MLS. They only have money to spend on skilled players and high potential youth that could grab them a payday (usually one and the same). Otherwise they are going to get reliable soldiers for a price, and fill in the ranks accordingly. The money isn‘t there and won‘t be any time soon. Glad fits the mold of a player they can grab locally who can do the same job. He isn‘t a standout. A solid soldier. Just can’t see it unless the coach had a previous connection/scouting report and has kept track of him.
     
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  22. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jozy weighs 174 according to the official MLS website.

    In unrelated news, I can offer excellent terms on a well sited bridge with great toll taking prospects. DM me for a viewing.
     
  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Like I said, the weights are periodically updated. It's not difficult to understand.
     
  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The heaviest weight I've seen listed for Altidore is 200lbs, which is realistic for the post-weight gain Jozy.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Glad has always been a super interesting one. The times he's been in the US camps, he's always seemed erratic and a bit error prone.

    But his effect on RSL has been insane -- their record with Glad and when he's hurt, at least as of about a year ago, made him look like an MVP candidate. It's hard to ignore when a team's goals allowed drops like a rock when you are on the field.

    But I think he's just on that border where there's nothing going to drive him up to a higher league or the national team. He's not tall. He's not fast or super quick. He's very strong with RSL but no one is rating him the best CB in MLS or anything. He's not an elite passer.

    That's not to say the decision making can't take a leap or something, but I don't think he's a guy that you look at and say, if he puts it all together... He's put it together.
     

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