News: Fire Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bigredmachine, Oct 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some notable results/games for reference:

    2010 Cycle

    Down 2-0 to El Salvador, 88' equalizer to get by 2-2
    1-0 win over T&T where the goal was a random Clark long range goal before he got subbed.
    Wild 3-2 win over Honduras. Casey brace.
    2-2 tie against Costa Rica with a 90+5' goal from Bornstein

    2014 Cycle

    90' winner against Antigua & Barbados
    1-1 tie against Guatemala
    2-1 loss to Honduras
    90+2' winner against Jamaica from Brad Evans. Mind you , Jamaica finished with 0 wins.
    90+2' & 90+3' goals against Panama (granted, we didn't need to win).
     
    gomichigan24 repped this.
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yeah... that isn't support. Go and celebrate anyway. I'm sure another player will say something that isn't support that you can act like is later this week.

    “He put and laid very good foundations for the team. If they bring him back, obviously we’ll continue to work under him and if they don’t, we’ll continue to work under somebody else. And that’s just the nature of what we do as players. That’s the nature of the sport. Sometimes there’s continuity, and sometimes there’s change, and we’ll roll with whatever happens.”
     
  3. Golazo69

    Golazo69 Member+

    Aug 2, 2017
    where did you play your soccer? Just out of curiosity
     
  4. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You forgot the rest of the quote lmao.

    When asked if he would want Berhalter to return, and what he wanted to see in any coach who might be hired. "Yeah, I just think for us players, I think bringing (Berhalter) back is a familiarity," Ream said. "It's the togetherness he brought to the team after it was very, very much kind of sporadic and fractured. When he first came in it was a big transistion wiht a lot of new guys coming into the program, I think he did a fantastic job in that aspect and laid very, very good foundations for the team."

    That's definitely support.

    I'm not celebrating. I don't want Berhalter to return, necessarily.
     
    WrmBrnr, deejay, superdave and 2 others repped this.
  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    We averaged 2.2 points over 10 games, including the blown points you mentioned. Even they didnt get those late goals, they still finish with 1.8 points per game and comfortably qualified in 2nd due to GD. That neglects that if we hadn't gotten full points vs Honduras and still needed points to qualify, we dont rest players against Panama.

    We comfortably rolled through qualifying.
     
    adam tash repped this.
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I left it out because I dont think commenting on team unity is support. It really is the only positive that gets mentioned, but we know he sacrificed a lot of talent to get it. We also are slowly seeing that the team wasn't nearly together as they are trying to sell us. All Tim Ream interviews sound basic sports no speak. Kind of odd that CP planned an interview to talk about it and basically said the same luke warm thing.
     
    adam tash repped this.
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    What about the unity? The way they came together to qualify when their alleged best player bailed on them.

    It is kind of wild when you compare those two cycles and then look at the narratives the MLS media and ignorant fans have gone with. Getting out of the group was the absolute minimum achievement in 2014. Zero expectatjions 2022. Klinsmann sucked and ruined the team, while people like Doyle are claiming Berhalter is our best coach ever. Doyle is really just one of you guys. So bad for the sport in this country.

    My favorite part was him putting down our players to prop up Berhalter. Kind of amusing that the MLS players looked like such weak links with average players.
     
    adam tash repped this.
  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Notably Tim Ream (who has played for Bradley, Klinsmann, Arena, and Berhalter) had this to say on the unity question.

    “This is my fourth cycle now, so being part of the program for 12 years, first coming into the program my first few years in MLS, there definitely was that kind of feeling of not-quite togetherness between the two. And that's where I go back to this previous cycle, where the togetherness has just been incredible."
     
    russ, superdave and TheJoeGreene repped this.
  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously? NOW you want to talk about team unity and culture being a good thing because it fits your narrative?

    Who in here has brought up Doyle or the writers on MLSsoccersoccersoccer.soccer.com??? Just stop, you're chasing your tail and having an argument with yourself.
     
    WrmBrnr and superdave repped this.
  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, thats a mirror, not a window.

    Also, about qualifying…CONCACAF winnows out the minnows, so the US doesn’t get to play our equivalent of San Marino. Further, in the hex, the worst teams would be more or less in the middle of most UEFA groups.

    Here was England’s group

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_–_UEFA_Group_I

    6 teams, 2 of which were San Marino and Andorra. I’m very confident the US would get 10 or 12 points against them. Then there’s Albania and Hungry. Poland came in 2nd with 20 points. Put us in Poland’s place, do you think we get more or less than 20 points? For me, probably more. Also, the Salvies would have obviously finished ahead of two of those teams. I don’t know anything about the two middle teams so I won’t pretend to have an opinion.

    Poland’s playoffs was a walkover against Russia and then a 2-0 home win against Sweden. Surely we would be expected to qualify if we had been in Poland’s slot. No sure thing, but expected.

    Wales had a pretty tough group.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_–_UEFA_Group_E

    Put us in place of Wales or the Czechs, and I think we could have gotten 15 or 14 points. But we would have probably needed a bit of good fortune somewhere.
     
    Shabs, USOutlaw16 and jaykoz3 repped this.
  11. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    This is not a particularly hot take it is just pretty obvious IMO. Any NT that can make it out of the WC group stages fairly regularly is good enough to qualify out of any region. I'm not saying will qualify but rather can qualify more often than not.
     
    dna77054, Shabs, Suyuntuy and 3 others repped this.
  12. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    international soccer is so weird in that it is inevitably hard to assess the game accurately and globally...i think people overvalue the history of what has happened more than in other sports.... with tennis, baseball, basketball etc is so much easier.....comparing leagues, players, clubs, regions, etc is rife with partial info and subjectivity and often refelcts more on the observer than the observed....but, yeah, I totally agree with your take...it's obvious to me as well.

    A lot of people underrate where the USMNT actually is in the globabl hierarchy of the sport for various reasons....especially USMNT "fans" (which bugs me, personally)

    Louis Van Gaal said it in Qatar: the US is one of the best teams. He wasnt lying.

    Very few teams make it out of the group stages as consistently as the USMNT does.

    is there vast room for improvement ? yes

    is the coach a big part of that? sure.

    Can berhalter get there? NO.

    Balogun wouldnt score for greggg (because he wouldnt get chances)
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Nope. Just pointing out how stupid people are that are backing Berhalter. Pretty wild how quickly your guys narratives shift. I never how good or bad you guys think anything is.
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Woah, you are finally talking about actual WCQ. Unfortunately, it is just hand waving. What happened to it is hard to play on road? Just hand waving at teams like Sweden? Do you do the same with other teams in the playoffs like Portugal, Italy, Turkey, etc? Did you factor in the three game windows where Berhalter would heavily rotate and play bunch of those MLS scrubs or run the team into the ground like he did at the WC?
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Like I said, Doyle is just one of you guys. He of course is more of a caricature, but there are plenty of people on here that fall in line with his views.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Why are some writing as if Berhalter were still the manager? Too much sauce?
     
    jaykoz3 and russ repped this.
  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hence the power and danger of his platform...

    a lot of people that echo doyle probably got it from him and simply cant think on their own and dont realize he is a propagandist but rather an intelligent astute analyst
     
  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    behind the scenes it is obvious what is going on

    greggg is blwing up the group chat BEGGING his former players to vouch for him and publically support him

    this is greegggs golden goose....he wants those millions that come with being usmnt manager

    after that all he will have is his compensatory MLS gig as a thank you for all of the favortism he showed to MLS as US manager

    why isnt he looking for a gig in europe?

    why is he so quiet?

    why doesnt he just get real and acknowledge that the USMNT job is too much for him? does he care at all about the guys he says he is so tight with?


    im shocked pulisic would support him and want him back...def makes me lose a lot of respect for christian.....how could he be so naive and blind?
     
  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The USMNT has made it out of the group in 3 of the past 4 WCs.
    That puts the US in a fairly elite group.

    But its also fairly clear that over this time the USMNT is one of the ~16 best national team programs................but not one of the top 8. So we're getting to where we should be. And frankly, I don't think the identity of the coach over this past 16 years changes that. Thats what our talent base is.

    And I don't know if our talent base will make us a top 8 team over the next 25 years. Cuz as far as I know, nations like France aren't going anywhere.

    Give me 25 more Pulisic's and we're still not France. Sorry for the bad news.

    The US U20s are playing the French U21s right now in a friendly and getting their doors blown off. This is with Paredes, Gomez, Slonina, P. Aaronson, and others. Not close at all.

    So Berhalter lost to Holland. It sucks. it hurts. Holland had a better player at every position on the field. So, a win would have been a colossal upset. Sometimes colossal upsets happen, as with Morocco, but most of the time they don't.
     
    jaykoz3, WrmBrnr, mattjens and 3 others repped this.
  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Reminds me of those ads for a pill that stops balding in 3 out of 4 men. The 4th dies of a heart attack though. Of course they don't say that in the ad, you have to do research.
     
  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It is fear for some. The federation has made it perfectly clear that he is still in consideration and the media are constantly trying to convince us that the players like him (don't buy it for a second).

     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I am not see many people underrating the USMNT. What I see is bunch of over reactionary nut jobs that swing from we are great, to horrible, to great again. I dont think our place in the game has changed much in the last 20 years. We are still third teir team. Probably in that 15 to 25 level. The biggest problem I have with the fanbase is they don't seem to have a clue the quality of top nations and what they accomplish.

    The US is nowhere near one of the best teams. Not close to top 10.

    The reality is that record is very flattering. The easiest way to explain it is that all none of our WCs has been decisive and all include poor games. All the results/performances were so average that there are numbers of fans who can explain why to tournament wasnt a succes. Can you name competition outside concacaf where we have had a winning record? It hasn't happened at the WC or the 2009 CC or the Copa in 1995.
     
  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Copa Centenario was probably our most complete tournament where we would have had a winning record if not for the third place game. We blew out Costa Rica and had one goal wins over Earaguay and Ecuador with two losses to Colombia and another to Argentina.... all at home.

    I guess it is possible we could qualify out of CONEMBOL, but based on the we have played in cocncacaf qualifying I have hard time seeing us in the top 5 of South America. More grueling 18 game competition with tough crowds and much better teams.

    You have to beat tier 1 and 2 level teams to be considered one. I just see how people who think so highly of a team whose major accomplishments over 20 years are beating Iran, Ghana, Algeria, underperforming Portugal who took us for granted, and Mexico who took for granted. Of course over that same time frame we also lost to Ghana twice, lost to Iran, and tied Portugal.
     
  24. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Actually I do not believe that the USA has played in any competition, outside of CONCACRAP, except for the WC and a couple of Copa's, in MANY MANY years. There just are no such tournaments available. It is the nature of where the sport is in international competitions.

    Although a LOT of fans worldwide believe that international competitions are the focus of FIFA it seems clear that it is the clubs that are the true focus of FIFA. It is the clubs that have all the significant money. From that I believe that we will not see any increase of "international" competitions for countries. However FIFA may well work to actually improve international club competitions and have more clubs actually playing internationally.

    That is, I believe, the only way that we, as a soccer nation, will improve. That is unless we manage to improve CONCACAF. If that wee to happen then "The Nation's League," "The Goal Cup" and other "local" tournaments might actually become meaningful.
    But it is not going to happen fast and it is not going to be "easy." We are not really a top 20 team even though we get ranked higher most of the time. We are somewhere between 20 and 30th but we play so few meaningful games against the better teams that it is nearly impossible to really judge relative overall strengths.

    But I think I really don't much care. We cannot and do not play enough meaningful matches to really judge our strength.

    Also, as a side subject, I do not think that "history" means much once you get past four or five years. If we were to have beaten England at the WC it would mean almost nothing when we next meat them in a meaningful match. It will be a minimum of four years and more than likely eight or more and the next time we play will not have any relationship to what has happened in the past.

    That is really true when discussing U17-U23. The matches have no zero zilch meaning once a year or three has pasted. I do not understand why, when discussing current or future matches, the results from fix or ten or twenty years ago gets mentioned. It is meaningless to the current match so mentioning it is the commentator's way of saying nothing while making noise.

    Maybe this stat can be improved if we pull from the Women's side and create a few "false" tournaments like the "She Believes cup." That way we can develop a better tournament record without actually having to play tournaments. ;)
     
  25. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Well he's a locked in starter and the marketing focus of the team. Put up a goal and two assists at the World Cup and likely wants recognition for that. I'm not surprised he's not calling for total change, as in a way he'd be calling out himself. That wouldn't apply to Reyna who barely featured at the World Cup or the notable guys who were left off the roster.

    Also I can't help but wonder if for a guy like Pulisic if in some ways it's a relief to take a break from his high pressure club situation and play for a guy like Berhalter or similar coach who's not really that high on the global hierarchy. Kind of like when your toughest teacher isn't there for the day and instead there's a sub and it's an opportunity to recharge your batteries. You might not learn as much that day, but you have fun and feel free for a little while before it's back to the daily grind.
     

Share This Page