Fire Tim Bezbatchenko

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew' started by hangthadj, Feb 4, 2022.

  1. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    This can't be overstated. And people will point to the fact that he brought in Zela. Or that he brought in Cucho. That's fine.

    But when you make these moves Kyle spoke about and leave such gaping holes in your roster that you essentially waste 2 or maybe 3 years of Zela's prime, it takes the shine of those better signings.

    Bez, might be the happiest of all GM's that we now have the expanded playoffs, rewarding mediocrity, and giving us a fighting chance.
     
    zman31 and TRUJDUB21 repped this.
  2. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this is something I’ve been saying for a while: a lot of Bez’s top tier signings have been solid (LZ, Cucho, Moreira, Room) but a lot have been largely disappointing as well (Diaz, Degenek, Yeboah, Molino). It seems his signings are either really good or really bad. The bottom part of this roster has been iffy for a while now.

    And also, I know some will scoff at this, he hasn’t had a good history with the SuperDraft. It’s s joke, I know, but it’s still a way to acquire young players for cheap (or even potentially free with GA contracts) and improve.

    As an example of someone we could’ve drafted but passed on were two Canadian world cup players, Kamal Miller (second round pick) who plays for Montreal and Alistair Johnston (mid first round pick) who plays for Celtic. I think in the Johnston draft we took JJ Williams. Anyone remember him? Lol, I do :(
     
  3. Paul171121

    Paul171121 Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 14, 2018
    Yaw is perhaps the biggest indictment against Bez. To think paying 3ish million for a winger who didn't really make an impact in the polish league and pay him a chunk of change was not the smartest idea before we saw him play.

    Matan showed upside, is cheaper, and was brought in using a new roster mechanism at least.

    I don't know why we have not bought a player from South America. Do we have no scouts there?
     
    CybrSlydr and Tobias C repped this.
  4. LaMacchia

    LaMacchia Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I must be blind, because I don't see the sky falling. I see team that's still gelling and is one point out of the playoffs (I can't believe I checked that after 4 games) and has a 1-2-1 record. Things could be much, much worse, from my point of view. And, not to mention, the coach hasn't thrown anyone under the bus yet: Players, staff, or fans. Things are improving.

    But y'all have given it a lot of thought and are enjoying yourselves. Carry on.
     
    SLSHOT01 and Tobias C repped this.
  5. Tobias C

    Tobias C Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Mar 6, 2014
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right. If we were interested in the player, then fine, but Yeboah probably shouldve been more of a Igbekeme type situation. Bring the player in loan for the season, then trigger the purchase option if we like him, let him return if we dont. That was too big of a gamble on a player with that weak of a resume.
     
    POdinCowtown and TRUJDUB21 repped this.
  6. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Literally half the squad is made up of dudes with probably 500 minutes or less of pro minutes.

    Not ideal.

    Two years in a row Bez got rid of Gyasi Zardes (because Miguel Berry was good enough, though he didn’t make it to the end of the season) and Jonathan Mensah (and replaced him with a dude making his pro debut at 23 years old).

    Cucho eventually came in, and eventually that was a net positive, but those dropped points with Berry as a starter cost us a spot in the playoffs, and the coach his job.

    Mensah’s replacement was…. some dude from Turkey? If it was Francisco Calvo, that’s a net negative IMO. That failed, and now we have Quinton, who might be a decent player down the road, but he’s a big downgrade from Mensah right now. The stop gap answer was Vallecilla, who was shipped out by league worst Cincy, and then shipped out by nearly league worst Colorado.

    Not ideal.

    Our top 10 salaries:

    Zelarayan - $3.7 million
    Cucho - $2.9 million
    Nagbe - $1.8 million
    Room - $880k
    Degenek - $810k
    Molino - $700k
    Yeboah - $660k
    Moreira - $630k
    Matan - $460k
    Diaz - $410k

    I’d argue 3-10 is pretty brutal there, minus Moreira.

    Judging Bez on this season only would be silly. But seeing that we’ve only made the playoffs once in four years, and despite missing the playoffs that often we had to let impactful players like Etienne go because of a cap crunch, that’s a mismanagement of assets over 4+ years.

    Again, not ideal.
     
    TRUJDUB21, CybrSlydr and zman31 repped this.
  7. zman31

    zman31 Member+

    May 5, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty much the entire Pre-Bez Crew team has been turned over at this point. The entire roster is Bez's and it's not great.

    We are certainly in a rebuilding process. The question is, do we want Bez as a part of it. Based on the state of the roster my answer is no.

    Though with better input from Nancy, maybe he can do it. We have a lot of roster maneuverability and plenty of holes to fill in lineup. I could be convinced to side with @LaMacchia that he's got us in a place where we can bring in the players Nancy needs as this rebuild takes shape.
     
    Kyle Crew repped this.
  8. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bez has this year to make some impactful signings. If by the end of the season the team isn’t better, and we miss the playoffs, that is four years out of five we didn’t make the playoffs. In MLS, where damn near everyone makes it. If it were another team, we’d all have no problem saying he should go.
     
    Minnman, zman31 and the_rickler repped this.
  9. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, this is par for the course with a middlin' league like MLS. You get big league leftovers. Some hit--some do not.
     
  10. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one is perfect. But look at St Louis. They are 4-0, and have been good. Why are they so good so fast and why was Cincy so bad? Pure random luck? No. Organizational rigor leads to mitigating risk factors. And it’s not like STL is spending crazy money. I think they only have one DP.
    LAFC consistently finds good players. So doesn’t Seattle, Nashville, and Philly. Teams like Chicago, Vancouver, and Houston have been consistently shit at finding talent. It’s not simply hit or miss, or pure luck.
     
    TRUJDUB21 repped this.
  11. Paul171121

    Paul171121 Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 14, 2018
    A good chunck of CITY'S roster played in MLSNP and USL. They are an exception to many of the arguments made here today
     
  12. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One advantage that a new team can have, especially in soccer, as MLS moves away from the traditional "expansion team", is that there is a more open system of acquiring players, so that they don't have the anchor of bad mistakes from the past.
     
  13. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m sure as teams get more scouting information on StLouis they will come back to average.
     
    Minnman and Kryptonite repped this.
  14. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They played there just to kill time until the MLS season began. Roman Burki played in Next Pro. Their backline are all MLS players. Ditto with the attackers. They brought in foreign talent in midfield.

    Subs, fair enough.
     
  15. ZipSix

    ZipSix BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2000
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's just people on a message board talking to each other. None of it matters.
     
  16. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Average makes the playoffs in this league, something that Bez's Columbus squads have failed to achieve the majority of the time. St. Louis may come back to average. Here, average is aspirational.
     
    TRUJDUB21 repped this.
  17. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A 4-0 team has never failed to make the playoffs in MLS history.
     
  18. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that was Porter's fault?

    I'm sure the owners are next, right?
     
  19. zman31

    zman31 Member+

    May 5, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the point of your post? I want to side with you sometimes when you get called out in @hangthadj posts and you get into a pages long back and forth. But he's entirely right about you being a constant gatekeeper of what the discussions here are able to contain and lacking an ability to see different facets of a situation.

    It seems that you cannot fathom that a coach, a general manager, and an ownership group could all have an impact on the team that takes the field for us each week. That they can all have good and bad qualities that are worth discussing.

    This thread is for discussing Bez's role, good or bad. Quoting another poster only to question if they should have an opinion on it because of some other related topic is asinine.

    You replied to a post about STL's hot start. Their 12 points with 30 games to play means they can be below average the rest of the way, maybe as low as 1 ppg average and make the playoffs with 42 points.

    Our team of munchkins got outmuscled all over the field by NYRB. Six of our top paid players are struggling to compete. The only upside I see on the roster is that we have a lot of flexibility. Based on his track record I have major worries that Bez is the guy to guide the rebuild. I think if he wasn't a home town guy that he'd already be gone.

    Do you have an opinion on Bez's roster build or is Hang merely not allowed to hold one because he thought Porter should be fired and has been critical of the Haslams?
     
    Sagz, ZipSix, CybrSlydr and 2 others repped this.
  20. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    There is plenty of blame to go around. Several posters, have talked about roster construction in years past. Hell, some even wanted Gyasi Zardes cut, with the team getting nothing in return, after one of several disappointing results vs FCC the past few years. There has been poor management, there have been poor roster decisions from Bez, there have been poor performances by players, there has been an unwillingness by ownership buy out sunk costs and re-invest.

    The recent failures of Columbus Crew have many fathers. That doesn't mean that some do not bear more responsibility than others. There is a hierarchy of responsibility. When we hopefully reach the other side, the success will not be entirely the result of one individual either. And yet, some will receive more credit, some will receive raises for their performance, some will receive contract extensions, maybe 1-2 will even be inducted into the Crew Ring of Honor hidden near a 200 level storage closet.

    Let's hope we see that other side sooner rather than later. A more wholistic view of the organization and those responsible for the decisions that have us where we are now, can help us get where we want to be sooner.
     
  21. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, there is one poster that thought it was all Benz’s fault when Porter was here and he got shouted down. Now that Caleb isn’t here, Bez is responsible? Just trying to keep things straight.

    Nancy can’t be to blame for two losses in four games so we go looking for someone to blame?

    People complained that Porter didn’t play the kids and now the team is full of kids and Bez is to blame?

    Hang’s post is right, there are a bunch of factors in play, from signings not working out, to youth to learning a new system under a new coach.

    So no, I’m not trying to gatekeep opinion or discussion, just wish some people would remember their previous opinions.
     
    catfish9 repped this.
  22. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Fancy Title Here

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) When was our last playoff game?
    2) When was our last home playoff game?
    3) When was our last home playoff game with an unrestricted capacity stadium?

    Bez? Hot seat.
     
  23. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Fancy Title Here

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Technically, isn't this post-shootout?

    But yeah...that's semantics when 4/5 or 4/6 conference teams make the playoffs and the shootout isn't around post-1999.
     
  24. zman31

    zman31 Member+

    May 5, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, you read and replied to my post yet didn't bother to answer the core question I was asking, what do you have to say about Bez's roster constructions good or bad?

    Then you managed to do more of what I called you out on. Complaining about people having an opinion about Porter also having an opinion about Bez. You acknowledge there are many "factors in play" yet seem upset that people have an opinion about Bez that is interdependent of the coach.

    I think most folks here are giving Nancy a chance. I have liked some of what I have seen and think he has brought some fun back to the group. It's the beginning of the project and I don't have high expectations for this season. Part of my low expectations stem from the disaster that I think the current roster is. That I lay at the feet of Bez.

    I don't think anyone is blaming individual game results on Bez to avoid laying blame at the feet of Nancy. Again, lots of facets to the team performance game to game and season to season. The players on the roster and their contracts are Bez's domain, in this thread we're discussing that. We have game threads where the specifics of a given match and Nancy's management of it are discussed.

    I don't want to shout anyone down, I'd like to have more people discussing the team and brining their individual perspective to the conversation. You have failed to do that in the original post I quoted and now the reply to me You only complained about what others were discussing while both misunderstanding what others have said and adding nothing of your own. Useless.
     
    Kyle Crew repped this.
  25. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The core question? This roster in in flux for a variety of reasons, from a new coach wanting his own type of player, the jettisoning of older players in favor of younger kids and other factors.

    Calling this roster as it stands “Benz’s roster construction” isn’t really fair in my opinion.

    And reading emotion into message board posts isn’t always realistic, I’m not, nor have I ever been, upset by something posted on the internet. Also, pointing out a stark difference in opinion over time isn’t complaining.

    Maybe I should go to Twitter and complain about tailgating or celebrity fans?

    Sorry if I upset you [emoji6]
     
    catfish9 repped this.

Share This Page