The stakes are higher in a relegation battle (or promotion battle in a lower tier) than a chase for playoff seeding, or even playoff birth, but you are not wrong. Of course, you can have playoffs and pro/rel; I’ve always assumed any MLS move to a multi- tier structure would keep MLS cup playoffs. We are Americans after all.
Tasty pro/rel battle shaping up in the Premier League. Nine clubs within six points of each other trying to avoid three relegation spots.
It'll be interesting to see who escapes and which Big Club falls through the trap door. Based on form it looks like the current bottom three will remain there when it's all said and done. Then again Leeds and West Ham aren't helping themselves any and could just as easily find themselves taking the drop along with Everton. Unless Sean Dyche can perform a miracle, I just can't see Everton avoiding the drop given their current form and lack of talent in the final third.
Actually no, it's you that's missing the point. Why are you mansplaining how it works? I know exactly how it works .. which is why I know that BIG NAME clubs from the CL get moved to the EL when they FAIL to make the knockout round. Once again, you're completely wrong. JUVE, BARCA, and AJAX all crashed out of the CL and were dumped into the EL BARCA crashed out last year AJAX and MANU crashed out two years ago
And with 11 or 12 games to go, going by the previously established math in this discussion ... Chelsea and Aston Villa have been eliminated from any truly meaningful matches. They're either far enough ahead (points + GIH + GD) or too far back (points + GIH + GD) to obtain anything or face the drop
But in a P/R system "every game is meaningful" (quoting multiple tweets over multiple years, not necessarily anyone in this thread).
Do Chelsea and AV only play each other the rest of the season? Or do they have a chance to knock teams out of European football, or cement a team's place in the relegation zone?
Sure--but in a closed league, teams which are eliminated from the playoffs can play spoiler, as well. Playing for pride is a thing for professional players (and playing to stay on the roster--and in the coaches plans--for the next year is as well).
Or qualify for the last European spot (depending on who wins the FA Cup). After all Chelsea are two points behind seventh-placed Brighton & Hove Albion and Aston Villa four. Each has ten games left to play.
It's hardly possible for the stakes of a game to make a shit team better at anything all of a sudden. The entirety of the point is that despite not having relegation, clubs at the bottom of our standings DO have games that MATTER in the scheme of the season. Period, end of. Do they mean the same things? No. They do mean something though and it is your (and others) outright dismissal of that which is being called out. You apply it to the middle of the table clubs in p/r but selectively do not apply it to bottom end clubs in closed shops. That is the definition of selectively applying your principle and being a hypocrite. Your M.O. for this discourse over the years.
Five points cover nine teams, with twelve matches to go, for three relegation places. Imagine playing in a sport or competition with no relegation, you don’t know what you’re missing. pic.twitter.com/VV4CSuDKa5— Kieran Maguire (@KieranMaguire) March 13, 2023
With 11 matches left Toulouse is 12pts off REL and 12pts off Europe while Clermont is 11/13pts respectively. Effectively playing for nothing with two months left. Monza/Sossuolo/Empoli effectively playing for nothing also. Places 13-19 in the Championship effectively playing for nothing (30% of the league) with 10 matches left 7 of 18 clubs in Portugal's top flight effectively playing for nothing with 10 matches left *again, all based on math that more than one of us agreed on in previous discourse in this thread*
Five points cover nine teams, with twelve matches to go, for three playoff places. Imagine playing in a sport or competition with no playoffs, you don't know what you're missing. Explain to me why those two statements are any different, other than something that boils down to "I like relegation more than playoffs" (which is a fine opinion to have, but that's all it is, a personal opinion).
I've explained this multiple times. By having two distinct goals, one at the top, one at the bottom, you avoid the situation that plagues closed leagues of having to have oversized playoffs - thereby devaluing the "regular" season - in order to try to maintain interest for a critical mass of teams. With those two distinct goals, there is no such devaluation. Of course, pro/rel and playoffs are not mutually exclusive but can coexist, as is the case with pro/rel playoffs etc. But such playoffs don't have to be oversized because of that second goal from the bottom of the table upwards.
How about quoting someone in this thread about something said this decade? Every freaking time the same comment is brought out. I don't doubt that someone, somewhere at some point on this 1400 page thread said "every match in pro/rel league matters". But obviously and clearly that isn't true. Of course it's not true. But here is the million dollar point. Teams in Pro/rel earn the right to have meaningless game. Having a meaningless match is actually a sort of reward. Everton supporters are dreaming that their final match against Bournemouth will be meaningless. The idea of being at Goodison on a beautiful later may day enjoying a meaningless match is the stuff of fairytales in Blue pubs across Merseyside right now. This makes those "meaningless" matches themselves fundamentally different. Actually that's exactly what happens. it is around this time of the year that supporters start getting familiar with the run in. And what you don't want are sides in the relegation fight particularly on the road. That is a known thing. And guess what teams often do play better when there is more at stake. Also for the record for everyone Villa is "all but" safe. But they aren't actually safe, I suspect it's going to take more than 35 points to stay up this year. And while it would be absolutely crazy for them to not get a point the rest of the season, Villa fans won't completely relax until they have hit 40 points.
I follow leagues that use both structures so I don’t have to imagine anything. Both structures have their merits. Pro/rel isn’t a significant factor to my personal enjoyment however.
Oil, I'll have you know we are NOT eliminated from meaningful matches!! We are still going to qualify for Europen football thank you very much!!