Giovanni “Gio” Reyna national team discussion (from YA)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gogorath, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #4076 xbhaskarx, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
    Convenient you left off Morris and Acosta, almost like they were not playing in top leagues so they don't support your argument... oh and you can pump up Aaronson and his accomplishments all you want, but if Gregg had Aaronson above Reyna in his depth chart, that's just another mark in the bad coaching column. Dude is a mess against grown men. He should have only been used as Arriola upgrade to run around.

    Over Reyna.

    As I said earlier, some journalist needs to ask guys from Jordan Morris to Acosta to every other player on the roster, who else besides Reyna was told before the World Cup that they would have a "very limited role"?

    You were, on this very board, crapping on LDLT's season in the Eredivisie and how no one wanted him, like two days before he moved to Celta Vigo... now you're describing it as a "really nice season" to support your ant-Reyna crap... have you no shame?
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #4077 IndividualEleven, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
    If GGG had expected Reyna to fully participate in warmups and in practices, the player should have been left home.

    Coaches make exceptions for exceptional players in cases, in which suboptimal fitness prevents full participation in practices and warmups. If Gregg didn't want to make such an exception for Reyna, the player should have been left off the roster. Instead, Gio was placed in a situation, in which he was trying to protect himself.
     
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  3. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before the Gio haters gaslight everyone with their creative spin on his playing time and/or productivity, here are the facts...

    I want to make this easily searchable as I'm sure this "BS" will continue, so a search term that should produce no other hits as it can't possibly be USMNT related: "mediocre abusive uncharismatic nepotism potato with anger issues"

    Reyna right AFTER the World Cup:
    [​IMG]

    Reyna AT the World Cup:
    [​IMG]

    Reyna in the Bundesliga right BEFORE the World Cup:
    [​IMG]

    Reyna in Champions League BEFORE the World Cup:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Is it not possible though that Giovanni suffered additional physical/muscular problems just before the WC camp started? In your opinion, why did he refuse to sprint during that almost 2-week period cited by Bob Morocco?
     
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  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was that before or after he was sulking and throwing a tantrum over being told by Gregg that he would play a very limited role at the World Cup? We know, and it's pretty much universally accepted, that Gio was dogging it after that... (and can all agree that is a bad thing).
     
  7. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Do we know for a fact that Berhalter told Gio that he would have an "very limited role?" Isn't it only Gio himself who has said that? Could that be stretched a bit through a frustrated young person's interpretation of something much less defined?

    It just seems really unlikely that the staff would say something like that to him before the tournament in such simple terms, and I'd like to know the full context before jumping to conclusions.

    It's also conceivable that the only reason Morris was selected ahead of him for the Wales game is because he was in the doghouse/not trusted to put in the work necessary after loafing it in training.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Morris and Acosta play very different roles on the USMNT than Reyna. Is Reyna a #6? No. If we had a #6 better than Acosta in Europe, then I'd 100% be calling for his inclusion. Morris is a speed player. A like-for-like backup for Weah on the right wing. And Morris barely played, and played less minutes than Reyna.

    De la Torre isn't my cup of tea, but he did have a better 2021-2022 than Reyna. And de la Torre didn't play a second. He seemingly didn't throw a tantrum about it.

    Nobody is saying Gio isn't a more talented player than any of these guys. That's sorta not the point. If you're trying to make that point to others, its a strawman argument. I had been saying for a while in my "Best XI" predictions that I didn't know where Gio fit in Berhatler's scheme. It was clear that Berhalter was going with Musah-McKennie-Adams as his #1 choice in midfield. It was clear that when both were healthy, Pulisic and Weah were his top wingers. Gregg want those skill-sets on the field (and both had good World Cups). He was chopping and changing all cycle with the #9. Reyna isn't a #9, so that doesn't really matter. So it was fairly clear to me at least that Reyna was going to come off the bench at the World Cup.

    I really don't get the consternation. Yes, Reyna was going to be a role player at the World Cup. We all saw it coming. It happened, and people are still flipping out about it.

    It can be the case that a player is supremely talented, but doesn't fit what one particular coach wants to do. Happens all the time.

    And 100%, 100%................a coach needs to manage the expectations of a player like this. 100% a coach should tell that player what his role is going to be. Why do you do it? So that the player doesn't throw a tantrum at the event itself.
     
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  9. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Berhalter should have given Jordan Morris's playing time to Gio Reyna.

    It would have resulted in an increase for Reyna from a pitiful, pathetic 53 minutes played at the World Cup to a Terzic-esque 56 minutes played. Absolutely tremendous.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Both things can be true:

    1) A player can be truly impactful in club soccer in a system his club team plays.

    2) The same player can then not be as impactful on a national team in the system that different coach has set up.

    We see that all the time for nations that have deep talent pools.

    If Berhalter wants to play 2-way midfielders like Musah and McKennie in his central midfield (Reyna can't tackle a mushroom), and wants speed on the flanks in Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson, Morris, etc.....................then where does Reyna fit? Didn't we all see this coming?
     
  11. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    We should also acknowledge the timing of Reyna's absence from the team. That seems to be ignored by some.

    Gio was out basically all of qualifying. That prevented him from getting familiar with the team, earning the trust of the coach, and establishing himself in an alternate central position, where I'd bet he would have had some opportunities.

    Berhalter was never going to bench Pulisic and Weah in the World Cup. Pulisic is the "talisman," and Weah was probably our most productive player throughout qualifying. He was also never going to move away from the MMA midfield that was the backbone of the team through qualifying to experiment with Gio there. If Gio had been available over those 10 months or whatever it was, things would have been different for him.

    It's kind of shocking that the Reynas didn't understand this.
     
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  12. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Yeah, the cold truth is that the playing time that Reyna wanted would have had to be taken from Pulisic, Weah, Musah, McKennie, and Aaronson.

    Even ignoring the reports of behind the scene griping by Reyna, 1-2 of these players were going to get less playing time than the others. Berhalter made a choice and I have no problem with it, though I hope that US Soccer will hire a new manager.
     
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  13. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Every single professional player I have heard talk about learning about lineup decisions prefers to hear about them ASAP. They don’t like day of surprises. The second Gio sees he is not with the first team in that tuneup scrimmage he is going to have questions about his standing. Certainty > Uncertainty.

    Yes, there are things that haven’t been reported that I have been told by trusted sources who have been right about other things. That includes:
    1. Being told after the lineup was released that Gio was only cleared to play 15 mins against Wales.
    2. That Gio did not cooperate with training staff on fitness testing in what looks like an attempt to hide his injury status.
    3. That according to their tracking data Gio did not make a single sprint prior to the Wales match and when asked to make one in the warmup, which he failed to do, it was decided that he could not play.
     
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  14. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    That post-WC match Gio “played the whole game in” was a 60 minute split squad exhibition against the weaker opponent of the two (Rapid Bucharest versus Fiorentina) and Gio wasn’t exactly throwing himself about. It was also a week after Gio played 45 in a WC knockout. So a player playing an intense competitive 45 then playing 60 in a winter break friendly a week later seems like a natural progression.

    The fact that Gio has not played over 30 and has only played in 3/4 matches 2 months after the WC shows the trouble a chronic/not fully healed hamstring can cause. I bet Gio could play more and be effective in a single game but the risk of him losing major time and prolonging his injury issue is not worth it.

    So if Gio was fit to play 30-67 minutes, crossing 70 once, leading up to the WC and then only fit to play 15 and unable to sprint after about 11 days of camp then it seems like his health status had worsened and that his effectiveness would have decreased.
     
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  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was addressed just two pages ago:
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's clear there was some kind of injury regression in camp as well. Berhalter said there was a twinge in the hamstring, and even Gio admitted that before claiming he was 100%.

    Honestly, as more and more comes out, this becomes less "Gio is pissed that he's not starting over other players" and more "Gio got hurt again and is reacting poorly to not being healthy for playing in the life long dream of the World Cup." It's still selfish and immature, but the nuance seems important to me.

    Obviously, reading tea leaves of motivation from the outside is nearly impossible, so this is all kind of dumb.

    But thanks for the info.
     
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  17. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I don't think Gio counts as a reliable source here. And, it doesn't make sense that Doyle would have any info on a conversation that only involved the staff and Gio. I think it's far more likely that he was told that his opportunities to start would be limited or something to that effect.

    Anyway, he got a full 45 minutes in a round of 16 game. Not the role he was looking for, I'm sure, but far from insignificant, especially considering that we was such an issue leading up to the tournament. If he had worked hard in training, maybe he changes the coaches' minds and earns it? Or maybe he plays in the Wales game instead of Morris and earns it there? Maybe a good performance against Wales gets him more minutes against England, and it grows from there?

    It's just unfortunate all around......
     
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  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Regarding Doyle, AFTER the Wales games, he said that he had been told not to expect much out of Gio Reyna this world cup. In the immediate discussion, it was clear at that time that Doyle had taken it to mean or been told that it was more related to health. That may be Doyle's misinterpretation, but it's clear he think that it is health-related, IIRC.

    It's clear that Doyle is not talking about anything prior to the World Cup camp starting, and it should be taken in context both with some of this injury discussion and the sulking.
     
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  19. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I'm not sure I'm one arguing with Bob that you mention, but I agree it would've been better not to select Reyna if there was such a fitness concern. I think it was handled bad by both parties. And again, my main point in entering this discussion was his current form is not necessarily an indictment on beerholder and due to Terzic's great man management. Gio probably took some lessons away from this experience. I hope so anyway.
     
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  20. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I'll say it..........................

    Bob Bradley is the best candidate to coach the US going into 2026.

    Of course, according to BS, it will only be because USSF is corrupt and secretly installing Michael as player coach in Toronto.

    EDIT: Moving threads.....
     
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  21. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Wow.

    This needs to be reported publicly.

    Berhalter’s assistants should start spilling the beans.
     
  22. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He might be the best actual manager we've had this century. But the fanbase will be absolutely livid if we hire him, so I think it's a non-starter. (That says a lot more about the ignorance and toxicity of our fanbase than it does about him.)
     
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  23. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I thought making Gio apologize to the team was corny of Berhalter, but if this is true, I can understand why he did it.
     
  24. Blustar

    Blustar Member

    May 30, 2006
    Club:
    Miami FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think what Bob Morocco posts indicates he was hiding his injury status. What would he be “hiding” in this situation.

    I guess they won’t notice I’m not sprinting, derp, derp…more likely that he had a disagreement with the staff of what he should be doing on that day. Maybe he had his own personal trainer or one from Dortmund who told him absolutely no sprinting unless absolutely necessary. He could have refused because he thought they were putting him in danger and were incompetent. ( not unreasonable)

    or maybe he was sulking and was like, I’m not putting my hammy’s at risk for these fools.

    The idea that he’s going to hide his injury by not running seems like an incredibly stupid strategy with 0% chance if success.

    Teacher: can you please move that book on your desk? I think you’re hiding test answers.

    Student:…,

    teacher: please remove the book.

    Student: (maybe if I don’t move it, she will stop asking and I will successfully hide that I’m cheating!)
     
  25. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    All the more reason to play him against Wales if you're Berhalter.... ;)
     

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