Cristiano Ronaldo Best Season?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tropeiro, May 21, 2019.

?

Ronaldo's best season

  1. 2007/2008

    6 vote(s)
    17.1%
  2. 2011/2012

    15 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. 2013/2014

    9 vote(s)
    25.7%
  4. other

    5 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I feel like there's a very clear athletic difference between late 00s to early 10s compared to 2014 CR7.

    His build in 2012 still looked like a winger. The way his body moved and such. By 2014, I think he had a more forward build. Looked bulkier and very explosive, but noticeably lost some ability to shift and change speed and direction at will that he once had earlier.
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Wake up from your twilight zone

    Spain 2018
    2011 ELO points

    Portugal 2018
    1959 ELO points


    Spain was superior to Portugal by 52 ELO points

    Ronaldo scored a hattrick
    https://www.eloratings.net/2018


    West Germany 1974
    2128 ELO points

    The Netherlands 1974
    2091 ELL points

    West Germany 1974 was superior to the Netherlands by 30 ELO points
    Cruyff scored 0 goals,0 Opta assists and 0 pre assists
    https://www.eloratings.net/1974

    Cruyff with the dutch superteam was devastating against teams like Sweden which is like Ronaldo with Madrid destroying teams like getafe which he routinely did
     
  3. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm not sure why you sent Ronaldo vs Spain. Spain 2012 is the best version of Spain between 2008, 2010 and 2012. So because he had a bad game against the best team in the world does that mean "he only shines when the super team is by his side"? What about his performance against Netherlands in 2012 (the team that reached final in 2010 and semifinal in 2014)?
    So you said: "The results of Ajax and Barcelona are clear with and without Cruyff". The time Ronaldo joined Real Madrid, there were irrelevant in Europe. The last time they won it was 7 years before and since then they have reached the semis only once and were knocked out from the 16th rounds 5 years in a row. Meanwhile Man United were champions of England 3 times in a row and finalist in CL 2 years in a row while winning it once. Ronaldo left an established and successful team for a team that was far inferior back then and starting a rebuild. He didn't join Real Madrid while being at their top. Real Madrid failed to pass the 16th round of the UCL in the two seasons after Ronaldo leave. Even though it's the exact same team that won 3 in a row just without Ronaldo.
     
  4. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    #129 ffff15, Feb 5, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
    Cruyff vs west Germany 74 >>> Ronaldo vs Spain 2018 in group stage
    Against Spain which lost against Russia
    with degea and weak defense
    I prefer Sweden 74 to Spain 2018 actually
    With Ronnie Hellström and Ralf Edström who had great tournaments
    You are only playing with numbers
    elo shows nothing
    Cruyff's performances against Poland, Italy and Belgium in the Euro 76 qualifiers in the group of death
    Except Poland, which team could score 4 goals against the Netherlands With Cruyff? What surprised me was Cruyff's performance when they lost 4-1 Something that Ronaldo cant even dream of
    Cruyff's performance against Hungary 66 in a much weaker team
    If you haven't seen them, now is a good chance
    Cruyff's performance against Brazil 74 is still better than all of Ronaldo's performances in the Euro and World Cup knockouts im afraid
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  5. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Against Netherlands which finished fourth in their group and didn't have a single win
    That's what Ronaldo is...fake performances against fake names
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  6. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He also played very well against the Czech Republic who past first in their group. So what do you value most? A Netherlands with Robben, Sneijder, Van Persie and Van der Vaart almost all in their primes who passed 4th in a group with Germany, Portugal and Denmark or the Czech Republic who past 1st in their group? You can chose, Ronaldo delivered good performances against the two
     
  7. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    First in this group:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_Group_A
     
  8. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #133 lessthanjake, Feb 5, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
    There’s some truth in all this, but I think it’s worth noting that the Eredivisie was surely much closer to a top league then than it is now. Indeed, as I’ve noted before, in the 30 years starting at Cruyff’s first full year at Ajax, only the English league won more European Cups than the Eredivisie. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1 each won fewer than the Eredivisie. And it wasn’t just because of Ajax winning three with Cruyff—an Eredivisie team won the European Cup the year before Ajax’s wins started and Ajax won again in 1995. Moreover, in that timeframe, Eredivisie teams also won the UEFA Cup three times (which was a bigger deal back then, in the European-Cup-era). Overall, in those 30 years from 1965-1966 through 1994-1995, the Eredivisie won 8 European Cup or UEFA Cup titles. Meanwhile, the English league won 13, Serie A won 12 (mostly from doing really well in the UEFA Cup), the Bundesliga won 7, La Liga won 4, and Ligue 1 won 1.

    Of course, that’s mostly just about the top teams (all of the Eredivisie’s aforementioned titles were won by Ajax, Feyenoord, or PSV), but more generally, we should remember that talent wasn’t as consolidated in the top few leagues back then as it is now. So I don’t think there was nearly as much of a difference between the quality of the best leagues and “lesser” leagues back then as there is now. Which perhaps goes without saying given the above. It is fundamentally not plausible now that Eredivisie could win more Champions Leagues in a 30-year span than the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, or Ligue 1. Indeed, it’s hardly even plausible that they could win one (Ajax even making the CL semifinals recently was shocking). It was a solid league back then, in an era where the leagues had much more parity.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  9. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    The strong team of Euro 2012 was actually Spain, Ronaldo performed poorly as always
     
  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Cruyff never performed great against a team like Spain 2012 so your point is essentially obsolete


    He did singlehandedly destroy the defence of peak spain in 2010


    Again Cruyff never did anything remotely this technically difficult against a comparable team

    Enjoy watching his performances vs Crappy Sweden though

    Had to laugh at the Cruyff west Germany 74> Ronaldo vs Spain 18 joke though
    First prize for class clown of the year goes to you

    It's not even better then Cristiano vs France 2006

    France 2006
    2062 ELO points

    Portugal 2006
    1895 ELO points

    France was superior to Portugal by 167 ELO points
    https://www.eloratings.net/2006

    Cristiano Ronaldo vs France 2006
    Sofascore rating

    0 goals+0 assists
    3 dribbles completed
    3 key passes
    68 touches
    https://www.sofascore.com/portugal-france/GObseUb


    Cruyff vs west Germany 1974

    West Germany was superior to the Netherlands by 37 ELO points

    0 goals+0 assists
    3 dribbles
    2 key passes
    66 touches
    https://www.sofascore.com/player/johan-cruyff/1419691

    The only difference between Cristiano and Cruyff at world cup level is that Cruyff battered the non competitive sides he faced and Cristiano did not

    This stuff about Cruyff destroying big teams at world cup level and Cristiano not is nothing more then a myth
     
  11. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You have to choose. I talked about Ronaldo's performance against the Netherlands and you complained that they passed 4th in the group. So I showed a team that passed first in their group, then you said that the group is bad. If we say that Cristiano only shines alongside a super team just because he didn't play well against the best team in the world in 2012, so let's also say that Messi only shines alongside a super team because he was extremely poor in the CA 2021 final against Brazil. (Detail: Messi never scored against Brazil in CA/WC)
     
  12. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Ronaldo at Euro 2012 was poor?? How biased can you be. This is coming from someone who does not think he has much of a WC legacy.
     
  13. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The strong team of Copa America 2021 was actually Brazil, Messi performed poorly as always
     
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  14. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #139 lessthanjake, Feb 5, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
    I do think we have to admit that Cruyff’s average WC performance was substantially better than Ronaldo’s average WC performance. You can compare individual performances, but Ronaldo had 5 World Cups and Cruyff had 1 World Cup. Cruyff’s average level at the World Cup was definitely higher.

    At the same time, though, Cruyff only had one World Cup. It’s a low sample size of games, and I find it unlikely he would’ve been as good in other World Cups if he’d played them. It just would’ve been extremely difficult to do. That said, his G+A contributions at NT level more generally are quite high (actually comparable to his club stats), so he was very good for the Netherlands outside of that WC too.

    I take Cruyff over Ronaldo, but I do think it’s arguable, so I have no issue whatsoever with you disagreeing with that. I do think, though, that Ronaldo has to contend with being relatively disappointing at the WC compared to the very top-tier of all-time players. I think one answer to that is just that he played for Portugal and they weren’t good enough for him to have the same opportunity to shine as those other players. I think this is certainly true to at least some degree (though obviously they were good enough to win the Euros). Another answer is that we should look at NT performances more generally (particularly since World Cups are really low sample sizes of games), and his Euro performances were actually generally really good. A third answer is that, Ronaldo actually had a relatively large amount of really good performances against very top national teams—more than most all-time NT greats have actually (albeit the vast majority were in group stages and/or the euros). Even with all that in mind, though, I don’t think the overall average picture of his NT performances isn’t quite at the level of the very top tier players ever. But I think it’s also true that it wouldn’t be hard to make an argument that his club performances are better than a lot of those peoples’—and certainly from a perspective of longevity at the top. And I tend to put more value/weight on club performances as compared to NT performances than I think a lot of other people do here—mostly because major NT tournaments are really low sample sizes of games and very random. Weighing all this, I still have Cruyff ahead of Ronaldo, but that may just be because I have a higher opinion of 1960’s and 1970’s Eredivisie than you do.
     
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  15. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Again, you playing with numbers.
    Ronaldo did nothing against France
    Cruyff's solo run in first minute is better than Ronaldo's entire World Cup career
    Friendly game:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    Ronaldo can only play well against Spain in friendly matches

    (Cruyff never performed great against a team like Spain 2012)
    I told you to see Cruyff's performances against Italy, Poland, Belgium in Euro 76 qualifiers and Hungary Euro 68 qualifiers.. especially vs poland
    Cruyff vs Brazil is still better than Ronaldo's entire national career
    0 goals in 8 World Cup knockout games and you are still talking
     
  16. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    #141 ffff15, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
    Ronaldo's performance against Spain in the 2010 World Cup:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


    How insolent you CR7 fans are
    Ronaldo doesnt shine even in Euros
    In Euro 2016, he wasn't even the best player of his team and only played well in 2 games
    Full matches of Euro 2016 games are available and you can't fool anyone
    In Euro 2012, he was weak against the strong Spanish team
    He was weak against Germany in Euro 2008
    He wasn't the best player of his team in Euro 2004
    Ronaldo is the biggest lie in football history.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why should I entertain someone who says with a straight face that Cruyff with 1 goal+1 assist+1 dribble+2 key passes vs Brazil 1974 is better then the entire international career of Cristiano Ronaldo

    I'm not wasting my time with any crackheads here anymore tbh
    Its too time consuming
     
  18. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    you are only toying with numbers
    nothing else
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  19. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    The biggest lie in football history? You have discredited yourself in your childishness and bias.
    You are talking about the undisputed greatest goalscorer of all time, 5 time Ballon D'Or, 5 time CL winner, winner of EPL, La Liga, and Serie A with top scorer and best player awards in each. I am not even a fan, but I will not accept your disrespect.
     
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  20. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    ahahahahaha:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  21. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
  22. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm curious to know who, in your opinion, was the best player in Portugal at Euro 2016? He scored 3 goals and provided 3 assists directly contributing to 6 of Portugal's 9 goals (66,66%!!!)

    Messi was weak against Brazil in 2021
    He was weak against Brazil in 2019
    He was weak against Croatia in 2018
    He was weak against Chile in 2016
    He was weak against Chile in 2015
    He was weak against Germany in 2014
    He was weak against Germany in 2010
    He was weak against Brazil in 2007
    He wasn't Argentina's best player in 2006
     
  23. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I don’t necessarily disagree with the thrust of your point, but I do want to quickly note that, at the very least amongst those, Messi was not actually weak vs. Chile. He actually played well against them—particularly in 2016 I believe, though he did ultimately miss a shootout penalty. In any event, that’s just quibbling around the edges and I think your point is that you can be your team’s best player in a tournament even when you didn’t play well in certain game(s). Which is certainly true, and, for example, as you note, it’s totally true that Messi was Argentina’s best player in CA 2021 but was not their best player (or even good at all) in the final. On Euro 2016, it is correct IMO that Ronaldo only had 2 good games. My recollection is that, aside from good games against Hungary and Wales, he ranged between quite poor (vs. Poland) to okay but not good (vs. Croatia), and then of course barely played in the final. That said, I’m not sure there was a better player for Portugal, because I don’t recall them having a different player that stood out as playing consistently well. If one were to say someone played better, it’d *probably* have to be a defender (maybe Pepe or Guerreiro). The defense did do quite well aside from against Hungary. But comparing Ronaldo to defenders is also mostly comparing apples and oranges. My recollection is that Ronaldo wasn’t actually particularly good overall in the tournament, but that may not be mutually exclusive with being the team’s best attacking player.
     
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  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #149 carlito86, Jun 14, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2023
    Impossible expectations




    Spain 2012
    2150 ELO points


    Portugal 2012
    1903 ELO points
    1BD73C39-847D-459A-AB90-145B00D0F508.jpeg

    Spain was superior to Portugal by 247 ELO points
    https://www.eloratings.net/2012





    Barcelona 2010/11
    2330 ELO points



    Shakter Donetsk 2010/11
    2083 ELO points

    6B6F0AB0-A5E3-4831-A428-B1CC11B8101F.jpeg

    Barcelona was superior to shakter Donetsk by 247 ELO points
    http://www.elofootball.com/index.php?season=2010-2011#club






    Netherlands 1974
    2091 ELO points


    Austria 1974
    1843 ELO points



    Netherlands was superior to Austria by 248 ELO points


    https://www.eloratings.net/1974




    Manchester City 2022/23
    2399 points



    Benfica 2022/23
    2151 points



    Manchester City was superior to benfica by 248 ELO points
    B40C7209-7458-489D-9D0A-FACACDCE834D.jpeg

    http://www.elofootball.com/




    Brazil 2002
    2057 ELO points




    United States 2002
    1826 ELO points



    Brazil was superior to the United States by 231 ELO points
    https://www.eloratings.net/2002

    Not even the maddest madman would expect the United States to take the World Cup off Brazil in 2002
    Or for any player representing the US to have some career defining game against them LMAO
    No one


    Nor would they dream of expecting shakter Donetsk to stop Barcelona from winning the treble in 2011

    Please be a man and Put your money where your mouth is the next time a team like Barcelona 2011/Manchester City 2023 faces these level teams
    You will not do it bro

    Nor would they expect a guy playing for Austria to turn up against 1974 Netherlands
    Are you kidding


    Treble Manchester City would be expected to 6-0 benfica on a very good day

    3-0 on a so so day


    But you like the many haters here project impossible expectations on a player you don’t even rate in the first place when no top 10 all timer ever faced a team in Major tournament KO rounds that was superior to their own by a margin of 247 points


    You are a sworn enemy of data and context so this will obviously just fly over your head
     
    Isaías Silva Serafim repped this.
  25. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    I didn't expect Portugal to win that game, I expected Ronaldo to play well.
    It just shows how much he depends on the system and his teammates
     

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