That's interesting. I've just been thinking the past couple days that I might like Tillman more as an out-and-out forward.
Well Egyptian league isn’t on there because it’s not in the SPI data to begin with. But I’m also fairly certain that nothing can be read into the 21st best MLS team by points last season, who is currently in preseason and playing their first competitive match since October, losing to the first place team in Egypt that’s currently in the middle of their season. Trying to read anything into the results of a game between those two teams, which ended 1-0 on a goal in the 88th minute, is just trying to knock MLS for the sake of it not based on anything real.
Yes, definitely, stats people pull out of their arse have more validity than on-the-field results. Gotcha.
Depends on whom he is competing with on which team. For Rangers: they know better, for the NT: definitely forward.
Tillman can play the 7,8,9,10,or 11. He has said that he patterned his game after Paul Pogba but once Bayern moved him up to striker in their U19 his game took off.
If Seattle had won the game and gone on to upset Real Madrid, would anyone be saying MLS was on the same level as La Liga? Because we wouldn't, we'd all be saying it was a fluke result and Real Madrid didn't take the game seriously. But I guess you'd rather actively look for ways to try and knock MLS when there are pretty clear mitigating circumstances when it comes to Seattle vs. Al Ahly.
Well that matchup vs Real Madrid was being built up by MLS folks (NOT by the haters) as a huge moment that would show how far MLS has come, and they sh*t the bed against a team from friggin Egypt before they even got to the long coveted faceoff against the UCL winner that even smart/rational people like Garth Lagerwey said was the ultimate goal... so now we'll never find out because they can't win a game they didn't even reach. I say that as someone who watches far more MLS than any other league, but it can't be denied that losing to Al Ahly was a disaster, and dismissing it isn't going to make it go away. Of course it, like any other game, has little impact on the long term trajectory of MLS, but that doesn't mean it's not a huge opportunity missed. Precisely because 99.999% of MLS vs Euro club games are meaningless, with "mitigating circumstances" and X team "didn't take the came seriously." The Club World Cup is a legit competition, and while "Real Madrid didn't take it seriously" folks would obviously exist if the MLS team had won, it would be less like a preseason summer money grab and more like 2009 Confederations Cup, where some Spain fans claimed it didn't matter as their distraught players were collapsing on the field... most would see it as cope... like they might see your comment above.
I think it would have been a nice opportunity for an MLS team to play Real Madrid in the Club World Cup. If Seattle had gotten there they would have almost certainly have lost, for all the reasons mentioned (being in preseason, not even being one of the best teams in MLS, etc), but also because they would be playing Real Madrid who is one of the best teams in the world. If they had won that game it very much would have been a fluke. The question you have to ask yourself, is if Al Ahly were to play LAFC or Philadelphia two months from now, who do you think wins that game? Leagues Cup is going to be a much better barometer for MLS and there's not really going to be any excuses if MLS teams don't do well. The new tournament with South America could be interesting too, but we'll have to see when in the calendar it happens and how seriously the South American teams take it. If the Club World Cup moves to the summer and is expanded, that'd also be a very good test for how MLS teams stack up compared to some of their global counterparts.
Al Ahly is a good club. They had won 3rd place in the last 2 CWC and lost to Madrid 0-2 IIRC in last year's encounter. If they have everyone available they could certainly beat LAFC or Philadelphia. In fact Philly's diamond pressure vs Al Ahly possession tia-taka would be very interesting which is why I was interested in seeing how Seattle's organized relentless offense would fare. I had hoped that anyone who saw Seattle's 0-0 with the 9th place Austrian BL squad and their loss to a top Egyptian team would understand that the differences between all these 2nd tier clubs are quite small. I think Tillman's Rangers would beat both LAFC and Philly. Gers just have more quality across the roster in most spots with the obvious exception of Vela on LAFC.
I think the thing about Seattle is that they weren’t one of the better teams in MLS last year. They were in fact 21st of 30 in terms of total points in the league last year. So putting aside the issues of being in preseason, it’s not really best on best when playing Al Ahly. Similarly, then playing the 9th best team from Austria when they are both in preseason essentially doesn’t really mean anything. Minnesota United beat Everton 4-0 in Everton’s preseason, but despite Everton being bad this season I think most people still think they are probably better than any MLS team. I do think Rangers is likely better than any MLS team, but the quality in Scotland falls off sharply after the top 2. Whereas MLS is less top heavy and has more depth. Transfermrkt (which is one data point but by no means the only) has overall team value of 138 million for Rangers, 51.6 million for LA, 49.4 million for Philadelphia, and 29.7 million for Al Ahly. Al Ahly’s number is higher than 5 MLS teams (DC, Montreal, RSL, St. Louis, and Houston).
It would be really nice if there were any feasible way for their to be more cross-league competitive matches with both teams in season in general. Less about who wins sample size theater and more about seeing the two teams match up, which players come forward, does one team dominate, etc. It's one reason why I really like the idea of Leagues Cup. I don't even know if the results are the point, but I think it'll be really interesting to see something more than a small number of the top teams face off.
I feel like the Leagues Cup draw this time went really wacky. But I really hope it becomes an annual competition, as intended.
This all seems to about some slight against MLS with you. Sorry I am not buying it, the 2nd tier clubs are all very close in quality. There were no concerns about Seattle's quality when they won the CCL or before they played Al Ahly and they have been prepping for the CWC since the season ended last winter. As for Malik Tillman, he could walk into every single MLS or Egyptian league team right now and be a lock starter and produce Gs and As at rates similar or higher than he does at Rangers. He has that kind of quality.
Agreed. The 2 Seattle matches were very useful in seeing the styles and quality matchups of the teams.
That's because it's not really a draw. The two league winners get a bye. Then the groups were created taking basically #2-#15 in points for each league and snaking them -- the #2 MLS team gets the #16 LigaMX team and the #16 MLS team got the LigaMX runner-up. Finally, the remaining MLS and LigaMX teams were put in to groups that more or less made geographic sense. Because all the games will be at MLS stadiums this year, and the timeline for the group stage is WC-like (about a week), having Seattle and Miami in a group would be a problem. They did avoid the rivalry pairings, though, so there may have been some randomness. Or maybe some of these teams are just tired of constantly playing each other (the US Open Cup, despite being a random draw, has so many geographic issues that Seattle and Portland are constantly matching up, etc.).
I think it’s more that a particular poster basically said that the Egyptian league is ahead of MLS simply because of this individual result when in reality there are a number of mitigating circumstances that make it not a game that’s worth reading into one way or another. If Seattle had won I would not have thought it was indicative of much either. It’s great that Seattle won CCL, but it’s just a fact that they were not a very good team in MLS last year. They were also fortunate to not have to play the top Mexican teams in their run to the title. That doesn’t at all take away from them winning, but we shouldn’t take them as representative of the best of MLS. Plenty of people have mentioned this as a concern. And I’m not sure what else Seattle could have done to prepare for the Club World Cup in terms of being not in preseason shape. They haven’t played a competitive match since October and there’s nothing they could have done to change that. I like Malik Tillman and I think he’s a good prospect. I don’t think it’s clear he could walk into any MLS team and score at the same rate in MLS. For one the quality of the Scottish league overall after Celtic and Rangers is not very good. The goal is he’s able to use this season to move to a good situation in a top 5 league.
Oh I think he'd be fine in MLS, a lot of other factors go into production, we saw what can happen when guys like Sargent don't have service and when they do, when Pepi gets chances in the box and when he doesn't etc. If Tillman goes to some anemic, garbage team, he probably would have problems like anyone else, but the level? The level absolutely wouldn't be a problem for him, the caliber of teammates would be.
Tillman strikes me as a wonderful complementary player who is going to play incredibly well off other talented players. I don't think he's the type of player who you want to put the onus of creation on, and I don't think he shows particularly well if the team he's on is constantly on the back foot. I think he'd really show out on an NYCFC or a LAFC. I think he'd be really interesting as a striker for Philly. I think he'd struggle like crazy to make an impact on some of the weaker teams where he'd be expected to be the man.
I agree. We've seen enough of quality players who require service to be productive to know that just putting a talented player on a team with a moribund central midfield is not going to see radical change. I don't know if he's complimentary or not, but to this point, he definitely doesn't seem like a guy whose talent is such that he simply is undeniable in the same way a Messi or Ronaldo or Cristiano Ronaldo were. He's not that. Interesting to note that he and scouts have seen him as maybe more a Ballack or Pogba, and that Bayern gave him about 2/3's of his starts as a Forward/Striker. So not quite sure what he is, and now Rangers are trying to turn him into, well, for lack of a better word but a McKennie, it really sounds like they want him to be a late arriving to the box #8 whose defensively sound. Kinda sounds like McKennie, but maybe played a touch more up field.
Seattle was definitely one of the best teams in MLS when fit. They were comfortably in the playoffs before Roldan got seriously hurt for the first time in his professional career. That was what broke them. As for their path in CCl, there's no need to caveat it. They smoked Leon, NYCFC and Pumas, winning each tie by multiple goals. The reason there was no México City club there is that Pumas had already sent Cruz Azul home. As for Tillman, he's a huge prospect and I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of our best players in 26. He's also so raw as an 8 that recent positive Athletic article says his coach felt it was a gamble to play him as an 8 against Ross County. If he's just now readiy for Ross County according to the Rangers boss, I don't think he was ready 2 months ago to be a backup 8 at the World Cup as many have claimed.