Though it should also be said I don't think England qualified on the men's side in 2016 and 2020. There remains the chance that if they do so in 2024 that they work something else with the other FAs (as happened with the women in 2020). But that is not the default position.
So for me the main issue is that's not really a choice to begin with because of releases A first choice Olympic 23 looks roughly like something the below (though the actual roster will probably be either 18 or 22 players) GK: Slonina, Brady, Pulskamp LB: Tolkin, Gomez RB: Scally, Reynolds CB: Campbell, Neal, Wynder, Craig DM: Cardoso, Flach CM: Aaronson, Musah, Tillman, Tessmann WF: Cowell, Paredes, Reyna, Booth FW: Pepi, Hoppe Others: KDLF, Bassett, Busio, Morris, Bello, Wiley, Tomkinson, Sullivan, Vargas, Che, Edelman, McGlynn, Clark, Alvarado, Gutierrez, Henry, Balogun, Ferkranus, Luna, Koleosho, Tsakiris, Cremaschi If I was picking the best three players overage players available I probably take Adams, Richards, and a 9 (take your pick between Vazquez, Sargent, Dike, etc). I think the issue is with just a U23 team, of that first choice group, it's going to be hard to get releases for Parades, Booth, Tillman (who may not be eligible), Musah, Pepi, Scally, Reynolds, and Reyna. And then I think it's more doable but releases on Slonina, Gomez, Aaronson, Tessmann, and Hoppe would still complicated. And if we took Richards, Adams, and Sargent as overage players, those are probably 3 impossible releases to get. And on top of that guys may break through with their clubs or make moves to Europe that might complicate releases between now and when the tournament starts. So even if we wanted to, it's hard to prioritize the Olympics over the Copa (where releases will likely be mandated).
i would throw the kitchen sink at the sr team as well, IF we were talking about wc qualifying. thats what youre not getting- this isnt a question of sr team vs youth teams, its a question of what matters and what only kinda matters. wc qualifying matters. the olympics matter. the nl matters. you dont have to personally like, or "prioritize" any of them, but they are the official matches for our national teams. a glorifed guest spot in another feds championship has a ton of upside- but it only kinda matters. we could beat brazil in the copa and you know who the comnebol champion on the books would be? spoiler alert- it aint us.
i appreciate laying out all the eligible options. my first thought is we would have a really killer 24 yo team wouldnt we? my second thought is i might use two overage spots on overage cbs. looking at everything laid out (at first glance, imagining everyone is released which obviously wont happen) id say richards, trusty and adams would be the goal, and just try to get as close to that as possible. i will note, though, im not digging how often im seeing booth on the wings rather than central. am i trapped in some hell where we never have an attack through the middle again?
The list is very subjective even now, and plenty of kids from your "other" group and younger will jump over by 2024. And totally agree with the final thought.
Yup. A lot changes in a pool in a year and a half. We have a full MLS and Euro seasons to go before thinking about which players are senior and which are U23s. There will be all sorts of "break outs." Who will be this year's version of Brandon Vazquez in MLS. A guy that goes from totally off the radar to a must call? For instance, right now Paredes probably isn't in an "A" team. Probably not. Not if we want Mihailovic, TIllman, and others. But by this time next year? Maybe. Maybe not. Who even has a clue what the injury situation will be like? Lots of examples we can give all over MLS and Europe. Guys who'd be more likely with an Olympic team now, but might be "must haves" for an A team at the Copa America in 2024. The wicked team would have been the 2020 Olympic team (actually played in 2021). Now THAT would basically have been the USMNT (with a keeper question). Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson, McKennie, Adams, Musah, Dest, Richards, M. Robinson, A. Robinson, Cannon..............the list goes on and on. Pepi, Reyna, Musah, Scally, Slonina broke out in 2021, so we could have added them (up a cycle). It would have been crazy. I don't even know where we'd have added overage players. Maybe a keeper. But it basically would have been the USMNT. But we had to qualify with virtually none of our top U23s, because they weren't released. Not even George freakin' Bello was released. So we lost in the qualifying tournamnet with like a "C" u23 team to Honduras' "A" U23 team by a goal. And people flipped out. When I look at the current U23 group for 2024..................the questions marks are where the question marks normally are in youth teams. The "late-developing" positions. Centerback, #9, and goalkeeper. Maybe by 2024 those won't be question marks as somebody other than Slonina steps forward at GK. Or somebody other than Pepi steps forward at the #9. Or Neal, Wynder, Craig and the CB class really nail down spots. We'll see. All I know is there are A LOT of potential U20 breakouts in MLS this year that we're not really talking about yet.................but will all be talking about by the end of the year. How quickly we forget that our pool is really deep at this U20 level. Have people forgotten Obed Vargas? I guess they have for the moment. McGlynn started the freakin' MLS Cup final, and didn't make that roster above.
The list is by no means a surefire list of our top U23s. Just a rough estimate at what a roster would look like and how hard it would be to get releases for a number of guys.
It feels like the most likely players to play in both the Gold Cup and the U20 World Cup this year are Caleb Wiley, Kevin Parades, Gaga Slonina, Cade Cowell, and Ricardo Pepi. Of those Wiley seems like the most likely as it's not clear that Pepi would even want to play in the U20 World Cup and I think we may have release issues for both Pepi and Parades for the U20s. Slonina might also not want to go to the Gold Cup if he's going off on loan and wants to be there for the start of preseason. Left back is a position where there is not a lot of depth domestically and European options (like a Vines) may not want to do the Gold Cup because of how it coincides with European preseason. Hence Wiley being the one most likely to do so in my eyes. I think there's a similar dynamic with Cowell at the wing position. The Olympics fall much later in the calendar than the Gold Cup so for anyone who plays in both tournaments that summer is likely to be an MLS player whose good enough for the A team (probably overage guys like Zimmerman or Acosta) or a European player on the A in a bad club situation who is a U23 or a good fit to be one of the overage players (like Cannon in 2021).
I can’t remember what size the Olympic roster will be nor Copa America, but I’m going to assume it’s 23 for Olympics and 23 for Copa America. Plus the three over age players. Regardless, we could still have two competitive rosters for both.... OLYMPICS Goalkeepers: Gabriel Slonina, Chris Brady, John Pulskamp [Carrera, Rando, Schulte, Odunze, Kochen, Beavers] Fullbacks: Joe Scally, John Tolkin, Bryan Reynolds, Jonathan Gomez [Bello, Wiley, Allen, Gray, Che, Harriel, Halliday, Cuevas, Pierre] Center backs: Walker Zimmerman / Tim Ream (o23), Erik Palmer-Brown / Mark McKenzie (o23), Jalen Neal, Josh Wynder [Craig, Henry, Ferkranus, Campbell, Dettoni, Cobb, Akinmboni, Suarez, Tomkinson] Midfielders: Yunus Musah, Johnny Cardoso, Taylor Booth, Jack McGlynn, Aiden Morris, Alejandro Alvarado [Edelman, Busio, Tessman, Flach, Tsakiris, Buck, Leyva, Atencio, Bajrakterevic, Vargas] Wingers: Gio Reyna, Kevin Paredes, Paxten Aaronson, Cade Cowell [Sullivan, Konrad, Bassett, Koleosho, Clark, Bender, Ngoma, Hopkins, Gutierrez, Mighten] Forwards: Ricardo Pepi, Hoppe or o23 (Ferreira, Dike, Pefok, Vazquez, Wright) ——————Pepi———————- Paredes——————————Reyna ———Booth————Musah———- ——————Johnny——————— Tolkin———————————-Scally —————Ream——Walker———- ———————-Slonina—————— COPA AMERICA Goalkeepers: Matt Turner, Zack Steffen, Ethan Horvath [Johnson] Fullbacks: Sergino Dest, Reggie Cannon, Jedi Robinson, DeJuan Jones [Vines, Fossey, Duncan, Gressel, Moore, Lennon] Center backs: Chris Richards, Miles Robinson, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Auston Trusty [Ream, Zimmerman, Miazga, Sands, Brooks, Rogers, Long, Kessler, McKenzie, EPB] Midfielders: Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, Brenden Aaronson, Luca de la Torre, Kelyn Acosta, Eryk Williamson [Roldan, Mendez, Pomykal] Wingers: Christian Pulisic, Tim Weah, Malik Tillman*, Alejandro Zendejas* [Mihailovic, Sonora, Morris, Sabbi, Mueller, Gioacchini, Arriola] Forwards: Folarin Balogun*, Josh Sargent [Wright, Vazquez, Dike, Pefok, Ferreira] ——————Balogun—————— Pulisic——————————-Weah ————Wes————Aaronson—— ———————Adams——————- Jedi—————————————Dest ————-Richards——Miles————- ————————Turner——————- Now, you can move this player and that player, here or there. You don’t need to nitpick the roster selections. But you can see that we can field two competitive squads. Regarding the Olympic team, even though I think Reyna should be a starter, he’s technically not a starter until the new coach makes him so. And if that’s the case, he could be the face of the Olympic team. That leaves the one bonafide starter: Yunus Musah. We can make a fuss about Yunus Musah being sent to the Olympics, but let’s look at who we would be replacing him in the starting XI: Brenden Aaronson. You know, the whole Leeds United midfield. I’m sure they’ll have enough chemistry to get the job done as good as it can get done. Meanwhile, I don’t think Balogun (if he choose the US) nor Malik Tillman are eligible for the Olympics, and I’m guessing that Zendejas chooses the US. That said, I’m 99% sure that 2 of the 3 over age players will be center backs. Even if Jalen Neal projects to be a lock. It’ll be as a back-up. That third over age player will probably depend on need and availability as it stands at the time of the roster selection. At the same time, there is a whole lot of soccer that will be played between here and then, and this player will emerge and that player will fade away. But we should feel confident about both teams. Ultimately, we’ll have to take a common sense approach. Both tournaments will be very important. And we can take both seriously.
As an athletic event the Olympics are important but as a soccer event the Olympics are nearly meaningless. It is almost a U23 tournament but FIFA did not want the competition so they have made it virtually an independent and meaningless tournament. It is NOT U23 and it is not full national and it is not even liked by FIFA, at least on the men's side. I really do not understand why this is even a debate. My thought is put the absolute best team we can in the Copa regardless of age and then put whatever is left and is age appropriate in the Olympics. Of course it might be good to put our #2 goalkeeper on the Olympic squad, no matter age, so he gets playing time and, if it turns out as I expect, he will also get a lot of shot stopping practice. For men's soccer the Olympics are about as meaningless as a tournament can get. As stupid as I think USA soccer is I do not think they are stupid enough to prioritize the Olympics over the Copa.
I agree with the talent/depth part if you just mean talent level. But Musah and Aaronson would mean very different things for how the midfield plays. They aren't like-for-like subs, so you'd probably want both with the first team so that the new coach and the players can figure out how the team is going to work. So I think chemistry building would require both players w/ the first team.
I think the Copa America should be the priority, but I think the Olympics are also an important/useful experience. Especially with our core group mostly going to carry over this cycle, it’s a good opportunity for some younger guys to get high level tournament experience against the sorts of teams we don’t usually see in CONCACAF. The 2000 team which finished 4th, included Friedel, Agoos, Hejduk, O’Brien, Donovan, and Wolff. All those guys played in the World Cup two years later and I can’t help but think that experience was a good one for them. The other thing about the Olympics is that they super high profile in the US, and this is a great opportunity in terms of growing the game and building buzz for 2026. Having a nice Olympic run will do that.
Since it is held first and is the senior team's main event it seems likely that Copa will get our very best squad. The big question then becomes how many players play in both tournaments. Initially I thought none or very few. Not so sure now.
MLS guys are most likely to play in both, though I’m sure their teams won’t want to release them for both (but it could probably be worked out). Someone like Acosta or Zimmerman maybe falls into this category as an overage player. Or if someone like Cade Cowell ends up being good enough for the A team but hasn’t moved on from MLS at that point. European guys who play in both will most likely be guys in bad club situations (think Reggie Cannon in the summer of 2021). The guy I’d currently predict to be on both is John Tolkin, but it’s likely he makes a Europe move between now and then,